Living Light

Stirring The Deep

Light Catchers

23 Comments

Light Catchers

Of Purified Desires

(Part 3: Exploring the Mysteries of our Reality)

 

Desires are the progenitors of creation.

The defining attribute of a soul of divinity, one reflecting the likeness of our Creator, is receiving, experiencing and giving divine love. Thus, an essential aspect of a metamorphosis into this divine soul, who exudes this eternal light, is desiring this love.

As I’ve mentioned in previous posts, we can’t love perfectly, or divinely, with our current false self-judging consciousness. However, we can desire this love in our current state. I believe the formulation of this desire is a part of the purpose of our current state; a desire that couldn’t manifest as it needs to without the experience of imperfection.

Pure desires are ones that reflect the characteristics of divine love. They produce a soul condition within us that is a necessary creative element that precedes becoming one with the divine consciousness of our Creator, which gives us the ability to love perfectly. So, though desire may seem like an insignificant aspiration, it’s of infinite value and power. Thus, desire formation and refinement is a pivotal part of our soul’s development.

The Path of a Light Catcher

Personally, possessing an increasing desire to love divinely is coming through many lessons of experiencing my own brokenness, pain and the pain I caused others, while being instructed in the nature of divine love through my conversational prayer life. The conglomeration of these experiences and teachings ignited a desire to sincerely love that grew into a desire to love … perfectly, and this desire continues to expand. It wasn’t one moment, but many moments strung together, because as truth builds, so does the love it reflects.

When our soul sparks with the desire for divine love, then as I’ve stated before, a guiding question to our situations and interactions is what would divine love do or how would I want to be loved? As we continually probe for the answer to these questions, we are schooled by our individualized reflective reality. This creates a fire of refinement that purifies our desires. And it’s our desire for this love that keeps this fire burning until all our desires are aligned to the nature of divine love and we gain a prismatic soul that can catch the light of God.

In response to this inquiry, a still small voice from within that we’ve heard throughout our lives (which we’ve labeled many terms depending on our belief system) begins to impress upon us the nature of divine love. It isn’t that we know exactly how to act, but the motive in which we act becomes refined and purified. Through this instruction, we learn about the characteristics of divine love. And these lessons touch every aspect of our lives because love and truth affects everything.

At times my false self-judging mind creates a deafening static that inhibits my ability to hear this whispering voice, but as its rants are quieted, the voice-like impressions come through. This inquiry into divine love serves as a plummet line into truth that grows ever more refined as we learn the nature of this sacred love.

Characteristics of Divine Love; the Everlasting Light

When the various attributes and their variations of divine love flow in unison, they manifest the singular harmonious vibration of divine love. If one is absent or not present in its fullness then it isn’t divine love.

These characteristics contain many layers, infinite expressions, and truths. Some of its characteristics are it’s always 1. longsuffering 2. kind and gentle 3. humble and confident 4. courageous and with no fear 5. honoring of all 6. constant, consuming, and all-encompassing 7. healing and forgiving 8. giving and nurturing 9. merciful 10. trustworthy, honest, and faithful 11. abundant 12. of divine judgment. It loves perfectly at all times to all entities of creation. It excludes no one or nothing. This love moves through us from its Source. It isn’t self-generated. It is the light of God.

When we are guided by the desire to love, we discover our desires are tainted with a multitude of features contrary to this love. Our desires, intentions, and motivations are teeming with grudges, retribution, resentment, ill-judgment, bitterness, selfish-ambitions, worthlessness, apathy, un-forgiveness, and lack of mercy toward others and ourselves. In certain situations or with certain people, we don’t want to be gentle and kind. We don’t want to honor all, but revel in self-exaltation. We don’t want to be longsuffering, but we want what we want now. We are controlled by fear and control with fear. Our love is fleeting, inconsistent, and temperamental. We inflate our pride to mask our insecurities. We take instead of give. We manipulate and are unfaithful. We hurt others for our benefit. This is where this path gets very difficult. Every jot and tittle of our soul is highlighted in this purification process as we face the likeness of a “dead” soul, one that lacks divine love, head on. And as the light of refinement grows brighter, nothing remains hidden.

As ugly as these traits can become, they are but the cries of our own pains and wounds. So when someone is acting this way to you, know it is his or her pain talking, thus to love them is the answer in a way that honors you, them and others. Everything we experience in this “fabricated-self” serves to teach us. It’s all purposeful.

This love-fire continues to burn until we are left with a consuming desire to always love with all our being; heart, soul, mind and strength all of creation, the instruction of our Teacher. Our lives start to reflect a shadow of this desire, though the ability to divinely love hasn’t manifested. This lack of manifestation can be frustrating, discouraging, and painful especially as our desire to love continues to intensify. The more we learn of this love, the more we desire it. This desire creates an intense hunger and thirst in our soul for the divine consciousness (righteousness) that makes divine love possible.

Though a trying journey, the sighs of divine love keep pushing and carrying me along and encouraging my soul. In this, I find reprieve because its very nature assures me that I will one day bear its likeness, for those who hunger and thirst for righteousness will be filled. What a beautiful promise.

With a desire to divinely love, our soul embarks upon this refining path that runs immensely deep and incalculably vast. Every iota of our soul becomes aligned in its desires to the nature of divine love. This creates a soul condition that enables us to connect to the divine consciousness and to give of its love. In this oneness, we become expressions of truth, for love is the expression of truth. Truth of who we are, who God is, who others are, how creation functions, what our purpose is, and how we operate. Thus, the most cogent path to truth is through the understanding and growing awareness of divine love, the plummet line into truth. And as we experience an inner change of our desires for all that is pure, beautiful and of divine love, our own soul testifies to us that we are encountering the realm of truth.

In this purity, our soul gains a prismatic quality that can catch the everlasting light, our Creator’s divine consciousness, and we our on our way to becoming Light Catchers.

Author: Rachel

My passion is cultivating a deep relationship with God and helping others to do the same. I LOVE sharing with others insights that God has taught me and hearing what God has taught them... thus my blog, Stirring the Deep. My focus is on a relationship, not a religion. Life is in the relationship. I believe in a balance and unity of body, mind and spirit. I feel it's important to nurture all three for they all affect each other. I try to live in the present, where the Holy Spirit is. And I try to do all with the motive of love. I've come to believe life is a journey and not a destination. It isn't about perfection, is it about growth.

23 thoughts on “Light Catchers

  1. Hello Rachel,

    The quest for the level of truth you are describing is obtainable by no other way than the cross of Christ and it seems to me you have bore much of the cross’ processing “way” to realize this potential. As you know there are levels of truth described in the ” heavens” (plural). As we grow from one level of understanding to another ( by obedience) we are permitted to go on to maturity and to what level…as the Lord permits. It is entirely up to Him the level we are permitted to obtain to. It is my firm conviction that to attain to the highest calling in Christ Jesus, we must put away any and all desire to be “somebody” and to have a “position” in heaven.

    The only reward one is to seek is to be found only in the desire to love and be found in the likeness of God, our Father. All desires that lead to a self recognition is not of the Father’s traits, it is one of a selfish vanity and to want to be recognized above others is an assured affinity that we will remain in our sin condition.

    The pain and suffering as you describe whether caused by ourselves or others is as much a building block to this perfection we seek as any other event that happens in our life. We at first feel the pain of being exposed to the wrath of others but as we learn the value of being exposed to it, we learn that these things come our way to give us opportunity to…forgive, show mercy, have compassion, etc. We must see the value in “all” things to see that there “is” only a oneness in God, a singleness of purpose for us all. When we can see with this singleness on heart and mind we cease to be confused for we know…the end of all things and all people…a lovely and peaceful knowing.

    We should look at the “good” in all circumstances in all things because there is only a good end to the temporary suffering. We need not be here except to be subjected to the opposite of “love” for it is the contrast to love that will make true life explainable. By careful study and God opening the mind we see God had our purpose all worked out long before the natural earth was created…Our beginning and our end…a completeness predetermined and foreordained before we had done anything good…or bad. So…as we will experience the natural and the uncomely attributes of man…so it is said we will also experience the attributes of Christ…complete in Him.

    We come to a peace knowing our end will result in His likeness, therefore we with patience wait for the work to be accomplished in us. Some will be obedient to and through to the 100 fold, the third heaven of awareness…of completeness which you allude to and walk toward.

    Concentrating on the finished race, the goal, the completion which is the likeness, character and love of God is what we all say we want…but it is the inability to understand the cross of Christ which will prevent many from the highest calling in
    Christ Jesus.

    Our goal cannot be knowledge, or admiration from others, or understanding the mysteries or having all the gifts. It is very clear if we do not have…love…we run in vain, so while we say the words we must learn to walk the path which leads us to Christ likeness.

    As you so beautifully explain, we must suffer through many things…this suffering and choosing His way over ours is the “Cross of Christ” and we must rise above all the insults and evil that is “permitted” to come our way..for this is the fire that will purify us. It is written that “God is a consuming fire” and this is the fire we weather during living the cross life. We cross out our will with His at every opportunity that crosses our path.

    As we seek this path let us encourage and share with all what it takes to love without expecting anything in return for if we wait for a return from others we will never obtain. We must be like our Father, we love all and wait for them to be processed as we have hope that we will also will be like all,…when all the plan is accomplished.

    You give much food for thought and exchange. We have hope…for all.

    Rachel, as you are aware we say things so remarkably alike but as we have grown from our personal perspectives and beginnings we also “give” from a different aspect. I hope that in our sharing and varying perspectives people will see the goal is the same…His likeness in every way.

    Again, as we lose those we love, we have a knowing that comes with a peace that all is well. John has went on as the lord has called him…awaiting the reunion you will have with him. We should all desire to be where he is…and one day we will. It is those of us who remain which feel the loss of those passing on before us…but it is a temporary loss only in mind, not in actual reality.

    We give that we have been given…we can only hope it is with sincerity and with a oneness of purpose. Not below nor above others but seeing all in completed form.

    Blessings

    • Hi Sonny – Thanks for sharing your thoughts …

      I’m finding that divine love is the great equalizer among all of creation. In it’s affections there is no one greater or less, higher or lower, all are significant and equal while, in this love, all live their unique expressions. It works perfectly in each life and each life will be a perfect unique reflection of this love.

      I’m learning more about how Jesus Christ provides us a “link” to the divine consciousness of the Father. In this is he is the “way”, and he is a picture of the truth of the love of God (that is merciful, forgiving and desiring to heal) and the truth of who we are progressing to be, and he is life, truly a living soul … a divine soul, again showing us what true life is, oneness with our Creator and eternal Father. He was showing what walking in his ways would create … ways that were summed up in the 2 commandments ..all about love. Yet, when we really try to live these commandments we find in our current state it is impossible, though we desire it. Thus as he instructed we must be “born again” … we must become a divine soul divine by a divine consciousness that comes through oneness and no longer our self-driven consciousness. And in that process we find that everything has been and is for this highest good going back to the very beginning. Truly incredible to ponder and mediate on these beautiful things.

  2. In your writings here
    what I notice is that
    the emphasis is in actuality
    upon yourself. Your seeking is good, the
    hunger is good, but the goal Is in actuality
    for self. Your goal in, enlightenment,
    is for yourself.
    What I find in God, is that He has already
    accepted who we are, and knows already
    who we are because he created us.
    I believe what God is desiring from us
    and what He is hoping and waiting for,
    is for us to Worship Him.
    To praise Him for who He is.
    When you see, this, you will no longer
    experience a “fabricated self”.
    Because, He has “fabricated you himself”
    for His own glory and desires.
    He has already planed for you to
    experience these things today, with
    no waiting on your part.
    Gone will be your desire to determine
    the depth of you self, or your soul.
    Knowing Him, knowing his love, and
    studying His plan will cause that
    “self psychology” to dissipate.
    God doesn’t need to reveal to you~
    your personal psychology, which for
    you, is basically being revealed (to you)~
    as ‘that which is negative”.
    He wants to hold you in His arms, with
    both negative and positive in your heart
    and let Him Love You.
    He wants to love you as You Are.
    (He) wants to hold your tomorrow in His
    hands, and then hand back to you
    your psychology without analysis.
    He Just Wants You!
    Not What You Think About You!
    He Already Knows You.
    ~ Know Jesus.

    • “Thus, I’ve found that my learning of divine love is exponentially accelerated when I heed the divine instruction to love as you want to be loved. And not treat others as they treat me, or give them what I think or judge they deserve, or not consider them at all, but to live with the driving intention; to love as I want to be loved. In doing so, I’m learning aspects of divine love I wouldn’t have otherwise.”

      I believe this is good for both of us to think about.
      Steps to Christ a book by Ellen G White, it is on pdf

  3. I do not see that Rachel’s emphasis is upon herself “anymore” than it is upon others. To grow in God do we not first have to remove the beam from our own eye to be able to help others to remove the mote in their eye? I understand that phsyocology is man’s reasoning within his own self without proper direction and instruction in the straight and narrow ways that God has laid out for man. (In order to achieve the goal for each particular individual.)

    The scriptures teach that we are first natural and then spiritual, meaning we grow from the natural man as we were created to the spiritual man we are becoming. Along this regenerative process we will experience a lot of “self” which includes a lot of self analysis, phsyocolgical conjecturing, and going through a lot of ego driven self promotion…”until” we then come to realize ” As we have born the image of the earthly, we will also bear the image of the spiritual.” There is a lot of ground to cover “by experience” in experiencing self anylasis, self phsyocology, self promotion…self…self…self.

    When we have been left to self to figure things out “for awhile” God then “turns” us to Himself to learn a better way. (Jacob is a good example where he was given a name (nature) change.)

    The plan is we experience the “land” of the enemy which is within our very being, then when the seed of Christ within the field in which we are is watered and proper temperature by the heat of God is brought forth our seed which is in Christ starts growing little by little ( as a grain of mustard seed) we start growing away from all this self and start to take on a new man, a new life.

    We must first look within to cleanse the inside of the cup so that what is then cleansed inside becomes manifested by what is seen on the outside of the cup. We are that cup. We must be able to distinguish between “self phsyocology” and seeking and acknowledging our lack so that as the scripture states ” acknowledge” your sin ( lack of spiritual substance) and God will take it from you. We cannot acknowledge if we don’t search, if we don’t admit the fault we see, we cannot turn from our self phsycology to just being obedient to that which we are taught. We need no “phsycology” to pursue compassion, mercy, forgiveness, long suffering, etc. We just need to obey.

    Phsycology and by what ever other name we may want to call it, it is just ego looking to promote self over Christ. I do not see Rachel promoting herself but simply trying to share her seeking the love of God. Rachel’s sharing is unique in that she is not telling any other what they should do but is merely saying what she sees “at this time” in “her” journey. She is not saying you must see as I see and do as I do. This is a very benevolent attitude to have toward others of differing views. And when she is established in thw ways of theLord where there is no wavering, her speech will change, giving strong meat where she will be heavily criticized, just as Paul, for not sugar coating the truth. This is for those of the barley harvest, the 100 fold. This message will not be excepted by the masses for the masses will not accept the teachings of the cross…,the giving up of promoting self..defending self. Although God may accept us and love us “where we are” in our journey He never the less has our “end” in sight and he will not stop until we are found in His likeness and character. Sure, God loves us all and we will all be regenerated as the scriptures teach. And yes, we are God’s workmanship, we are not our own so when all the self goes away in whatever form it may manifest itself in, we then with patience wait for “Him” to finish us, His work. We simply then learn to obey the simplicity which is found in Christ Jesus…to love others as ourselves…and to love God…

    We must be forbearing not only in our own walk and learning experience, we must extend this respect to others as well. There are different callings in Christ just as the scriptures explain just as there is different kinds of flesh here on earth and the terrestrial is different from the celestial, so it is in heaven. We each are being prepared for that which we are called and the 30 fold will never see the calling of the 100 fold nor understand what it takes to achieve this calling. The 30 fold is more of an understanding of the natural, terrestrial world and therefore is limited in compassion, forgiveness, mercy and truth for they judge with the heart of the carnal man not having matured to the realm of the 60 or 100 fold. The 30 nor 60 do not fully understand what the cross of Christ is actually about because these are still in the infancy of Christ, blaming, criticizing, judging unrighteously. These are the ones as Paul described as needing to be yet taught about the milk of the word, not yet able to understand the “process” of growing on in to full maturity.

    We all make mistakes in our search…and fail…many times, we falsely accuse ourselves and others, but God is merciful and patient…and He will bring us all thorough the self inflicted pain as well as that inflicted by others. So let us encourage others in love…instructing with a purpose of reconciling all to God’s way.

    Respectfully to all

    • Yes what your are saying
      is correct, or revelatory if
      you prefer that word.
      The revelation that I am bringing
      is that God is a very present God.
      I was not referencing the idea
      of the evil of self.
      I am referencing the revelation
      that your self is already known by
      Jesus.
      If you commit to Jesus your life
      and heart, you will loose the
      idea of self worry about examining
      yourself “to make it higher”.
      You commit your failures to Jesus,
      and by him~ breathing ~into you
      his life,~ this frees you from
      the “weight” of self examination.
      The weight of it, not self examination
      itself, but the “weight of it”,
      which comes from the psychology
      of looking inward, instead of upward.
      God is a present God, and not
      a distant goal.
      As this weight is lifted from your
      shoulder, your path changes from
      worries about criticism, and failure
      and your inner dialogue is with Him,
      ‘not with your soul, about your
      own soul’.
      Jesus frees you from the psychology,
      that you achieve this as a goal,
      but rather you achieve it as
      a new creature.
      To be a new creature, you must
      receive this by Faith, meaning
      it is without reference to growth as
      a goal.
      You are putting on a New Coat.
      At this point your focus goes to,
      pleasing Him, not worrying about
      your own growth.
      It also frees you from worrying
      about criticism, because criticism
      is not a sin. Criticism can mean also
      simply noticing a false premise.
      By stating a premise this is how
      communication occurs.
      However, communication itself does
      not reveal your entire psychological
      makeup, so trying to solve, or enter
      this journey from that starting point,
      will lead you right back where you
      started.
      If you start with Jesus, every day is
      square one, and you are just as
      accepted yesterday, as you are
      today.
      The improvement you experience
      in Jesus, comes as He breathes daily
      into you, not because you can point
      to yourself and say “I have it today”,
      “I made it higher”.
      The truth is, you had it yesterday,
      if you only knew this.
      It’s a matter of receiving it, not
      doing it.
      The doing it, is simply being alive
      in Jesus, and he already knows
      every thing about you.
      It’s not a mysterious psychological
      unknown.
      It’s revealed.
      What I am sharing here is a revelation
      that must be seen.
      You can grow into maturity in Jesus.
      But growing up, is not a mystery,
      it is a known natural process.
      It doesn’t ever make you any less
      fallible. So the communication of
      this doesn’t make you any more
      criticized, or negated, or scrutinized.
      It simply means God is more ‘to us’
      than scrutinization of growth,
      or how we are growing.
      You notice the changes but you
      don’t ‘fight to get them.’
      He is our Father ‘if you believe in
      Jesus’, as King and Lord and, a
      Father, plays with his children.
      He enjoys His children.
      He is not constantly examining our
      psychology, in that sense.
      He frees you to both, be fallible, and
      good, so, to examine this relationship
      over and over, defeats the purpose
      of the relationship.
      God already knows you, without
      this mystery of seeking light, to
      gain light.
      Your hidden self is revealed in that
      light, and he will reveal it without
      referencing it’s “darkness”.
      We repent and move on.
      He is the Light, and we are people,
      renewed by his grace.

      Hope I state this well.
      Peace, and Love.

      • We have realized much when we have come to accept our as well as other’s circumstances in whatever capacity we find ourselves. Acceptance of where we are is the only place we can move forward from. To envy another in who we may perceive them to be or what they may have whether in the spiritual or the natural holds us back from making our journey without worry or anxiety.

        We must accept all as they (we) are without criticism by humiliation for we all started from a loss of consciousness from our true self…to be again revealed to us in the time appointed by the Father. I see for example Rachel’s, mine, and others in our dialogue as desiring the same thing…righteousness in God’s likeness…not our own self righteousness. We grow from where we are and have been, each as individuals. We should have no carnal judgement for the other because we see their lack but because we see another’s lack we instead encourage and pray that God continues to grow them in their lack as well as ourselves in our lack…yes in compassion, in hope for the other.

        Everything is what it is, as it is at the moment…right or wrong…lost or found, in darkness or in the light. We accept all circumstances as they are… but we do not accept that they stay the same in ourselves nor in another…we look for a change to the spiritual from our present circumstance in the natural. So, yes we must examine ourselves, admit our mistakes, our lack and faults without condemnation. By this recognition of our present condition and carnal nature God can take away the “sin” because we have acknowledged our fallen condition…only that He may take it away to make room for His spiritual nature… Thus becoming one with Him and Christ.

        We do not accept the sin we recognize, whether it is in us or in another but we do accept the sinner, again whether we or another is that sinner. We therefore look for deliverance from this sin and if we truly love as our Father ask us to…we pray for others as we pray for ourselves. I suppose that when we see others seeking truth from whatever perspective they have…we pray for them…for they seek the love we ourselves seek. We do not condemn, we pray. It is only when a person sets themselves up as “having it” denouncing others because they can only see from where they presently are, do we run into trouble as being judgmental in a negative way. When the “religious” carnal man judges, he condemns, critcizes, blames, and his intent is only to make himself look better at others expense.

        However there is a judgment that is righteous just as Christ says that the righteous man judges all things. This is a different kind of judgment for it is not carnal, dividing and self seeking. It is a judgment of determining the circumstances and condition at hand and determining by mercy, compassion, and patience what it will take to set things right with a love for the one in fault, praying for them, encouraging them…looking past their fault. When this attitude is mutual there is much maturity in the midst and reconciliation can be made. When finding fault is the object of ones “concern” this can only lead to arguement and debate, divisions and quarrels for the one who does such things is carnal, an infant in Christ.

        So let us agree to disagree respectfully so we may converse that we may encourage all to…let this mind be in you which is also in Christ Jesus. I can only pray for you where you are and you can only pray for me where I am. Let us look for the good and water that good in the other and with decent conversation pray for the lack we see in others.

        Paul said he did not even judge himself, for he understood that he as we are our Father’s workmanship and it is hard to measure ourselves as to the degree of completion. So, we leave the measuring to God…and we obey in love for another to the best of our ability, hoping and praying for “further” deliverance from our present carnal condition.

        We do our best to state things as we know them to be and pray we are respected as we respect those of other varying views. For it is not so much the views as it is the manner in which they are manifested which makes us acceptable to God and one another. Kindness does trump knowledge.

        Blessings to all.

      • Yes you are correct.
        The place where we minister
        from in our heart has to do
        with obedience.
        We do not minister as a believer
        in Jesus, solely based on what
        another person knows, but we
        minister the words that Jesus
        would have us to speak.
        This is what I was saying is the
        motive for me.
        In sharing, I share what the Lord
        leads in obedience to His will,
        and His leading,
        not in reference to emotions.
        The motive for speaking for
        a believer, follows obedience.
        The results are up to the Lord.
        There are many who do not
        believe in Jesus.
        Therefore, their motive for sharing
        would be different than mine.
        Your emotions are subject to change,
        but knowledge is important as a key.
        I do not discount the aspect of
        knowledge, or it’s importance,
        because knowledge is the framework.
        But my speaking has to do with
        compassion for another.
        This responsibility is not based on
        what you, or other people do.
        It is not in relation to another persons
        similarity or dissimilarity,
        but it is in relation to the similarity
        of what I know in my heart,
        and where the Lord is leading me
        personally.
        Judgment is in relation to Him (Jesus)
        and the sword cuts both ways.
        What I speak to another I live myself.
        So when I am sharing, there is no
        hypocrisy, and no fear of judgment
        to another or to myself.
        Hypocrisy hides because there is
        no truth in the heart.
        Truth In your heart has no fear of
        judgment. The fear of judgment
        comes from dishonesty within
        oneself, when one is unsure of what
        one believes.
        Love is what will Risk bridging this
        gap with another.
        Love is not the emotional feeling that
        you feel when everyone agrees with
        you.
        Jesus is that Love, He is Love, and
        He is leader.
        But many do not know this.
        So knowing is a Key.
        Knowing is important.
        To those who do not know, to those
        you are sharing. So that sharing, is Love.
        God deals with the heart of the person
        who is listening.
        If you have an open heart, no one can
        close that heart but, you.
        When you close it, that is the lack of Love.
        The sharing, is the Risking of Love.

  4. Sorry for the grammar errors.

  5. When we see and understand the goal that God sets for us and we see this same pursuit and goal in another, we mutually respect the pursuit of the goal and we do not emphasis the mistakes others and we ourselves make in getting there. Love covers all.

  6. I follow what you are saying and appreciate not only what you say… But how you say it. Not many can have proper respect for discussing varying views. This is a good foundation for dialogue.

    I do not discount knowledge, it is just a matter of priority of where we put our emphasis. In the saying that “knowledge will cease” in the context that love will remain once all the gifts cease to be…once they have done their work in bringing us to our destination…as knowledge. Knowledge is understanding what it takes to obtain the substance which
    God is. Once we understand…we become in nature what we before only “knew” about.

    It sometimes does not do justice to make statements and not have time and space to fully explain what is meant. I mean this in my comment about knowledge. With some we assume by their “sharing” they understand what is meant. What we become by living in the substance given us by our prior obedience is really all we can be concrete about. We eventually learn to speak from who we have become instead of what we know. Knowing..or knowledge leads a person to a place in heart and mind but it is God who permits us to enter through the door…which is Christ and His likeness. Without obtaining this likeness in actuality we as immature babes in Christ want to emulate and act out what we know instead of having patience and “letting this mind be in us which is also in Christ Jesus”. There is a patience in letting the Lord do the work so we do not have to act the part…which leads to self righteousness…a determining without proper understanding that it is the lord which must do the work.

    There is much to be said about our journey on earth, the why and the purpose. I do not ask these questions anymore for I see the purpose in creation and why we need suffer as we do. Once I saw God as a singular entity with a singular predefined plan of salvation for all people, I see God as good and His plan as good, not good and evil. Isaiah 45:7 gives us direction in looking at who is responsible for all things…both good and evil…it is God, period. There is no other God that has any power whatsoever. It is God’s plan all the way. The purpose of evil is to teach by experience what the lack of love is like. God carries each of us down the path of His choosing…we may rebel (for awhile), we may murmur and complain, but when we become to the end of ourselves, having exhausted self trying to figure things out and having tried religion ( self exaltation) as a way to God, we are then drawn by the spirit to follow the spirit.

    Knowledge is good but substance is better.

    Thanks for your words

    • Yes,
      Well I am not sure,
      or am not acquainted with
      what led You to change from seeing
      God as a singular entity, I am
      not sure what you would mean by
      that statement.
      And also, one, not with a predefined
      plan of salvation.
      I could probably surmise what you
      mean by this, because there are many
      who believe this.
      I don’t want to make assumptions,
      based on my own thoughts,
      but I could probably estimate what
      you believe here.
      You may have been trying to describe
      this in your comments because you
      touched on it in several ways.

      You made a statement about we
      speak from what we have become.
      At this point, you will find is where
      a relationship with Jesus enters
      the picture.
      If you speak from what you have
      become, you are speaking from
      your personal knowledge.
      But the Spirit of Jesus, Himself~
      in having a relationship with Him,
      is where He Himself will speak through
      someone of His people.
      So the idea of perfection of character,
      or ones own perfected character,
      ‘is not the issue’.
      This is not the area where we
      necessarily speak from.
      We speak from the Living One
      inside. So that is a singular entity.
      And this is what Jesus preached.
      So here I am echoing what Jesus
      said. This knowledge predates
      me as a person, or as and individual.
      So the justification for these kind
      of statements comes from Him.
      And then. His Spirit is where you may
      find the agreement that these things
      are so, or the disagreement,
      if they are not so.
      There are many who do not believe
      this idea, or this form of truth.
      So, the issue is believing and knowing.
      Without these things, love is a
      philosophy.
      Love is a Person, his name is Jesus.
      Many do not know this.
      So His Spirit leads, us, to tell.
      This makes us part of who Jesus is.
      And the story is about him.
      Not our perfection.

  7. I will take your comments one by one and see if I may add some clarity to it. It is given in compassion and patience though very direct. This is your entire comment and my reply.

    You say:

    Yes,
    Well I am not sure,
    or am not acquainted with
    what led You to change from seeing
    God as a singular entity, I am
    not sure what you would mean by
    that statement.

    In reply:

    I have not changed. In the beginning as says the scripture before there was anything else, there was God…and everything that we are familiar with in creation came out from God or was created by God.

    You say:

    And also, one, not with a predefined

    plan of salvation.
    I could probably surmise what you
    mean by this, because there are many
    who believe this.
    I don’t want to make assumptions,
    based on my own thoughts,
    but I could probably estimate what
    you believe here.

    You may have been trying to describe
    this in your comments because you
    touched on it in several ways.

    In reply:

    No need to estimate or surmise. If in the beginning there was only God before anything was created…as it says in scripture…it only stands to reason if God is the sole progenitor of all things, He is the one who predestinated, predetermined, and foreordained, and predefined “all” things. If He did not then who did? I believe I am clear on this.

    You say:

    You made a statement about we
    speak from what we have become.
    At this point, you will find is where
    a relationship with Jesus enters
    the picture.
    If you speak from what you have
    become, you are speaking from
    your personal knowledge.

    In reply:

    As we become matured in Christ and come to the place where we take on His likeness and character as we are commanded, we cannot help but speak from who we have become and are becoming in Christ. We leave the speech of the exalted carnal man and we speak with the mind of Christ. This is not conjecture or opinion, it is our instruction to “let this mind be in us which was also in Christ Jesus. So if we have the mind of Christ we speak with the mind of Christ likeness.

    You say:

    But the Spirit of Jesus, Himself~
    in having a relationship with Him,
    is where He Himself will speak through
    someone of His people.
    So the idea of perfection of character,
    or ones own perfected character,
    ‘is not the issue’.
    This is not the area where we
    necessarily speak from.

    In reply:

    Your words are very confusing and contradictory. As I aforementioned it says “let this mind be in you which is in Christ Jesus”. If one is being matured or has been matured they take on the identity of God’s character and speak with His character. It is not merely a matter of we remaining apart from God at this point. As Christ so plainly spoke we are to become one in Him as He is one with the Father. When matured fully we are as God is in likeness of spirit for we have left the territory of the carnal mind and have entered the land and kingdom of God. Yes we speak from who we have become unless we are still in the realm of knowledge where we can only recite words not having entered into His presence, obeying His will.

    You say:

    We speak from the Living One
    inside. So that is a singular entity.
    And this is what Jesus preached.
    So here I am echoing what Jesus
    said. This knowledge predates
    me as a person, or as and individual.

    In reply:

    We speak from the degree of where God has matured us to. We speak from who controls our mind, either God or the carnal minded man. Oft times when a man is converted he believes since he now believes there is a God and there is a Christ they are now right in all they speak. However it is made clear that even Devils believe. When a man is drawn by God to change from their selfish and prideful ways a man is not automatically cleansed from their carnal nature, it happens gradually as we obey Him in all He requires us to do. Correct knowledge predates us all so we must right,y divide the word as what is of God and what is the reasoning of our own undeveloped mind. I do not see you echoing what Jesus said at all, I see you are just as confused as you were before on this forum…Anon. However it seems you have learned not to be so bluntly self righteous as before, thinking you have the answers because you “believe”.

    You say:

    So the justification for these kind
    of statements comes from Him.

    In reply:

    I disagree that these kind of statements come from Him. I see they come from a religious, better than others, prideful, egotistical person with little regard for others…if they do not meet your definition of what righteousness is. You speak with little clarity and righteous judgment…very limited. It would do you well to readdress the milk of the word, again learning the simplicity in Christ before you public ally make these contradictory state,nets. You say one thing and then you turn right around and make opposing statements from before. If you would get your foundation right, which is learning what the cross of Christ is really about, you would address people correctly. We went through this a few months ago.

    You say

    And then. His Spirit is where you may
    find the agreement that these things
    are so, or the disagreement,
    if they are not so.
    There are many who do not believe
    this idea, or this form of truth.

    In reply:

    I am one of these who does not believe this “form” of truth myself for truth is God through Christ Jesus for truth is a “way”, of living and doing, it is not a “belief system” of accumulated knowledge. Knowledge is only a thing which addresses something that is true, it is not truth itself. God is truth, Christ is truth, knowledge “about” them is not truth. Truth is having the same likeness and character of God which we obtain through Christ. When people believe otherwise they reveal their immaturity as they speak from afar, using knowledge. Ones who are matured or are maturing in Christ speak from substance. They speak from a substance of love and not knowing about it…there is a significant difference. We should not claim prematurely what we don’t have, trying to prove we do have this substance using words of knowledge.

    You say:

    So, the issue is believing and knowing.
    Without these things, love is a
    philosophy.
    Love is a Person, his name is Jesus.
    Many do not know this.
    So His Spirit leads, us, to tell.
    This makes us part of who Jesus is.
    And the story is about him.
    Not our perfection.

    In reply:

    It depends on what you are believing and what you are knowing. Philosophy comes from what one thinks they know or what they believe in particular. One person’s religious belief and knowledge may stem from having truth while another’s is on a natural level of understanding. Most people believe heat they presently have is truth, claiming the promise before their time, running ahead of God. Many do not know this…

    When the spirit leads us to “tell” we should not mix one cloth with another in making our garment, it should remain one, a rain meant made from one substance and not two. This is an allegory found in the Old Testament and it means when God gives us truth, we should not mix it with our own self, carnal reasoning. We speak with a forked and confusing tongue when we do. Many have zeal to please God as I’m sure you do, but you have. U h self to deny before He can use you to speak truth to another.

    The story is not about our perfection?! You’ve either got to be kidding or you haven’t a clue about the purpose of creation. One of the first thongs God said was “Let us create man in our likeness and image”, was it not?! Is God’s image and character not perfect?!

    The story is about “Him” perfecting “us” when He calls us. This is the whole plan.

    Anon, it would suit you best if your going to “philosophy” yourself because this is all your doing and yet while accusing others of doing the same. In truth we all philosophy because we move from immaturity to maturity, from babes in Christ to full maturity. It is how we address others along the way which reveals our fruits whether they be of God or not.

    My purpose in answering you line for line is to point out you seem to be speaking, not to help another or converse with others in a respectful dialogue, you are one who believes one is truthful or righteous by what they “know”. I understand your position and you are very youthful in hour approach, spiritually speaking. You have such a beam in your eye that prevents you from seeing properly and yet you want to set others right. You should first ask God to remove the beam from your own eye and “then” you can see clearly to remove the speck from another. You compare your knowledge against that of another and then you judge them and use language that is not of Christ to substantiate “your” knowledge. Many may feel I am speaking rudely, however I am not, I am very tolerant with people until they just do not get it…and then and only then should severity of speech be used. I speak from a place of clarity and maturity that you do not have. I do not beat the air as you, looking for someone to agree with me nor do I consider what you may say in return for I speak not to insult but to correct one who may have a zeal, but this zeal is about hearing yourself. The best and surest way of being accepted by God is to listen instead of wanting to be heard. When you have listened long enough God will let you know and you will then know what to speak for you will speak from substance and not something you call knowledge that is from a reasoning mind.

    • I was trying not to give
      any definitions at all.
      My statements were very
      simplistic as to the nature
      of your comments simply
      to gain clarity from you
      as to your beliefs.
      Sorry I offended you.
      I was basically trying to
      understand your statement
      as to God not being a single
      entity.
      Sorry I commented.
      Be blessed.

      • My purpose in answering you is to show you It is not a matter of me being offended. The offensiveness comes from your attitude toward your fellow man. You turn things around on people when they speak plainly to you above your offensiveness.

        I really do not take people like you personally. I usually let people have their say without comment for what they say is how they see things and I respect their views. When someone is as bold as you are with little understanding, thinking what they “know” is Godliness…by quoting phrases out of the bible that do not even prove what you are saying, It is my intention and desire to get one such as yourself to stop and look at your attitude toward others.

        What I am telling you is out of concern for you, one that says they represent one thing, yet do another. Anon, it is the spirit of kindness that should guide you when you seek to have dialogue with another. I can and will have conversation with anyone a out anything. I do it all the time. One reason for my continued dialogue with the author of this blog is their heart is pointed in the right direction, seeking to connect not with another one on one, but through Christ and to love one another through Christ ( in spite of one’s personal view and belief) one must seek the “purpose” and “likeness” of who Christ is.

        Christ is ” A Way” and when He comes into your heart you truly have a gentle compassion for all people. You do not look to have variance with them, looking for differences, so that you may judge them, you look to the day when we all become one in Christ. And…for this to happen it takes much patience, compassion, and forbearance toward others.

        It is perfectly alright to have different views and to ask in a respectful way what another believes and respectfully disagree. You do not approach people this way, although I have noticed an improvement or an attempt to improve your approach to others.
        Living for Christ is a way and not a set of ideas apart from yourself, even having great knowledge and wisdom, it is about treating others with respect that we ourselves desire. It is about not looking for the fault but looking for the good and if you can give that, that you have.

        The only time when one should speak as I am doing right now is when you have a soul that is unrefined, thinking they are, and the only way to help such a one is just tell them plainly because otherwise they are going to remain in their better than you attitude…according to their knowledge.

        Ask me anything about what I believe and I will not keep it from you unless I think one is asking amiss, so that they may just further ridicule. If I thought you were a young person, just starting out I perhaps would use a softer approach. And I did even with you in the beginning, but you were just hell bent on teeming others, whether Rachel, myself or any other that disagreed with you.

        I am taking this time to be honest with you. You can take it as being rude but it is not. This is said to try to get you to quit looking for fault in others, speaking to them in a childish condescending way…leave for awhile and come back…start trying to be nice in your opening line…and before you know it your back to the old Anon, speaking from a carnal mind, thinking what you say is righteousness when it is so confusing to make out what you are trying to do or say…that I seriously do not believe you know what you are talking about. You are one as pointed out in scripture that thinks they will be heard for their much speaking…and crowing…not understanding whT they say or where it comes from.

        Let me be blunt, you are religious, you go to church, you probably are one who seeks a sign such as speaking in tongues more than you should ( tongues are ok when done in accordance with good manners and it has a purpose). You go to a particular building on a particular day at a particular time and listen to your chosen particular person which tells you what you want to hear, according to your natural religious belief.

        All these things people practiced under the old law, and they do now, not understanding or knowing that the outward building is dead for we are the temple, we do not worship particular days for we understand the day is the light of God to be practiced in all days alike. We understand that no man “needs” to teach another man because the spirit is poured into our hearts to understand “the way.”

        It is not a form and a ritual of righteousness, the way is how you live and who you are becoming…but only in Christ.

        It is not my calling to mix words and blow a trumpet (message) of not being able to distinguish between the sounds. I know the carnal mind and I know the spiritual mind for I have lived many years gaining experience and maturity…I do not take my calling as one who does not know the way, have walked the way, having turned from my own carnality and darkness. I am no one unlike yourself…I am just further down the path..I have lived by experience to know the Lord and having overcome much of my “self” I can now speak from experience. The lord has been gracious to show me that although I am not perfected without more work needing to be done in my life, much of the old man is dead…and I live for Christ.

        It would do you, me and the lord a disservice if I continued on with you in this type of dialogue you think is Godliness when it is caranal…just because you believe in God, you believe you are right and another is wrong with a differnt view on things. I realize just because I believe I do not know all things…therefore I should grant another this same respect.

        Ask me anything with respect and you’ll never get any condescension from me, belittle from a self righteousness like you do and are and I will tell you plainly.

        What I have told you is without prejudice, with no thought of demeaning you in any way. It is only that when one in “the church” is disrupting and will not take good advice this is where it ends. Although you did not say you were the Anon of before, your speech gave you away immediately. You started out “trying” to show a semblance of respect, hiding who you really were but it was immediate to who you were.

        When you learn what it is to worship God through Christ…and Christ is “a way” and not a set ritual law with a list of do’s and dont’s you will learn to desire kindness over knowledge and goodness over wisdom…and to know the difference.

      • When one walks on sand,
        he is able to feel the softness
        and gentleness of the path,
        whether one is sharing his lunch,
        or sharing his day, the sunshine,
        is for all and the day is happy still.
        As we continue to share what God
        has given us to share with another,
        the gentle sand will clean our feet,
        and soften our skin.
        As I have spoken of the rolling water,
        and spoken of the depth of the sea,
        the places that God has set for travel
        and the creatures of that land
        this place of love must be shared
        by each who hear the call
        by each who travel there.
        God’s kingdom is a varied place,
        a place where the king will walk.
        God has placed his rugs before you,
        but his magic is not for all
        you must welcome those who come
        to ever hear it all.

    • “No need to estimate or surmise. If in the beginning there was only God before anything was created…as it says in scripture…it only stands to reason if God is the sole progenitor of all things, He is the one who predestinated, predetermined, and foreordained, and predefined “all” things. If He did not then who did? I believe I am clear on this.”

      I just want to point out this one thing… We don’t have a predestination, GOD of course knows all thing yet because we have freedom of choice, there is no predestination. Hope this is alright with you

  8. Nice poem.

    Ah, if we could only learn to separate the chaff from the wheat, the knowledge of words from the substance of that we are to consume. In scripture in one context chaff is knowledge of sin and the wheat is what remains after the chaff is removed. The wheat is the substance that one can consume and be nourished by while the gleaner gleans the chaff from the wheat. We do not make the chaff a part of our diet but the wheat, the substance of God.

    The three main feast of the year in Old Testament times was the barley in the spring, the wheat in summer and then the fruits to the end of summer into the fall. Actually the grain and the fruits represented people being gathered throughout the season,mother 100, 60, and 30 folds. In another context and level of understanding they represent a person’s growth throughout their life cycle. The three feast also represent Passover, Pentecost and the Feast of tabernacles. These are stages we go through to get to the kingdom of God. We must be planted, watered, cultivated, and harvested.

    Christ represented the barley harvest where those are completed in the 100 fold to then participate in the wheat and fruit harvest.

    In studying these harvest we learn what the separation means and “what” is being separated from what. The carnality of man is the chaff of the threshing floor ( and oh how we are threshed) and as the wheat is being threshed it is separated from that which is good and nourishing from that which protected the kernel until it’s time to be harvested at “maturity”. This is an allegory about us. Chaff is judgment, chaff is division, strife and a debating attitude not for righteousness sake but for self promotion and adulation. The wheat when consumed without the chaff is love and peace, goodwill toward all, whether they be saint or sinner. God will bring all to harvest in their order and calling. Un ripened grain is immature grain such as a person is not mature when we speak from a knowledge of righteousness but have not learned or matured to the point where we have consumed “enough” of the substance of the wheat or Christ’s likeness. We have to digest the wheat as Christ instructed us to take this bread ( a wheat and barley product) and eat it and let it becomes part of us. The chaff or the boasting about knowledge is blown away in the threshing process. The wind takes it away never to be a part of the wheat again. The carnal has been separated from the truth. It is one thing to have knowledge and another to have truth. Let us pray for all that they may “come to the knowledge of the truth” that it may lead us to His likeness, a matured grain of wheat.

    Blessings

    • The only thing you
      lack is a relationship
      with Jesus.
      Jesus said, I am the
      vine, you are the branches.
      You’re stuck in elementary
      teaching.
      When you mature, Jesus
      himself can speak to you
      and teach you.
      You will find that he has
      a great debate, and he
      brings a great division.
      He will ask you to quit
      focusing on the negative
      aspects of human nature,
      and learn about the whole
      of, life in God.
      God is after the wholeness,
      of people, and the wholeness
      of human life.
      By making this transition,
      you will be able to hear.
      Hearing is not debate.
      Hearing is not judgment.
      It is obedience.
      You will be able to hear,
      the Life of Jesus in a person,
      not the mechanics of their soul.
      You may be a good student
      of scripture, but you can
      become a son.
      Here relationship is what is
      important, not the elementary
      teachings of chaff and wheat.
      Graduate from that into
      communication from God’s
      Spirit.

      Try moving from mechanics,
      to obedience.
      This will require you establishing
      a relationship with Jesus,
      and following the Word.
      The Word is divisive.
      Yes, totally.
      We are not divisive, but the
      Word is.
      Get out of the mechanics of
      religion, and into the Life of
      Jesus.

  9. You must understand the fundamantals before you can go on to understand higher things. I do not teach the fundamentals for my sake but for those who cannot see with spiritual understanding. God has given me this gift to help those who ask and listen. There are those who will not listen to sound teaching because they have not left the rudimentary things of the world. They do not understand the difference between knowledge and substance. The allegories all teach the spiritual and if one cannot understand the fundamantals, how can we expect them to understand spiritual things? I teach the fundamentals to those who cannot understand the spiritual ways of God. The natural things were created to explain the spiritual things, this is what God says Himself. The natural explanation of things are the fundamentals to understanding the spiritual mind.

    I left the world of fundamentals, types and shadows, and allegories for the most part and I as any should only reference them when we are unclear of our spiritual direction. I put little faith in these knowledgable things as I did in my youth for God has shown me they are not the substance and spirit of Christ which we seek, they are only knowledge of the substance of Christ. We must leave the law of rituals and do’s and dont’s to enter into having a relationship with God through the ways of Christ.

    Christ is the only “way” and anyone who tries to climb up any other way will not succeed. We must learn to stop talking about what we know and walk daily in the spirit as much as possible. This “other way” is through an outward religion, outward knowledge, outward words, it is a “self” seeking way that thinks knowledge about things are above walking in the spirit. We must leave the realm of the natural and realize God is within us and we walk in His presence in that we obey the two greatest commandments. Debating over what things mean is not the correct way to seek God.

    • Beautiful,
      Seeking and or
      debating are two
      different subjects. If you undermine
      the seeker, you undermine the debater.
      Sometimes the debater is seeking you.
      Simply seeking your heart.
      So whatever you see the difference in
      whether substance or knowledge,
      the simplicity of God will allow you to
      love, the seeker, or the debater.
      If you lay down your arms
      you can open your arms.
      If you seek God with simplicity you are
      enabled to allow others to seek you
      with simplicity.
      I see no debate when it comes to looking
      into someones eyes.
      If seeking to love someone is debate,
      then I’m sure we would all be guilty.
      God loves you.
      Be blessed today, and let someone
      love you.

      • Book desire of ages by Ellen G White, its free on pdf
        I hope you seek after GOD with all your heart, and allow the Bible to interpret itself, by comparing scripture to scripture. If you are the same person who speak s like a devil…repent before your hour is up.

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