Living Light

Stirring The Deep

The Path of Salvation

43 Comments

The Path of Salvation

God’s plan of salvation is far bigger and more loving that what is commonly taught. Here I share what God has been showing me in His Word about the perfection of His plan for mankind to do what they can’t for themselves, bring them into eternal life. It is a fulfillment of His holiness, righteousness and perfect love that drives out all fear.

Author: Rachel

My passion is cultivating a deep relationship with God and helping others to do the same. I LOVE sharing with others insights that God has taught me and hearing what God has taught them... thus my blog, Stirring the Deep. My focus is on a relationship, not a religion. Life is in the relationship. I believe in a balance and unity of body, mind and spirit. I feel it's important to nurture all three for they all affect each other. I try to live in the present, where the Holy Spirit is. And I try to do all with the motive of love. I've come to believe life is a journey and not a destination. It isn't about perfection, is it about growth.

43 thoughts on “The Path of Salvation

  1. The New Testament makes it plain that Christian women, like men, have been given spiritual gifts (1 Corinthians 12:7-11). Women, like men, are to use these gifts to minister to the body of Christ (1 Peter 4:10); their ministries are indispensable to the life and growth of the church (1 Corinthians 12:12-26). There are many examples in the New Testament of just such ministries on the part of gifted Christian women (see Chapter 5 in this volume). To be true to the New Testament, then, the contemporary church needs to honor those varied ministries of women and to encourage women to pursue them.

    But does the New Testament place any restrictions on the ministry of women? From the earliest days of the apostolic church, most orthodox Christians have thought so. One important reason they have thought so is the teaching of

    1 Timothy 2:8-15:
    (8) I want men everywhere to lift up holy hands in prayer, without anger or disputing. (9) I also want women to dress modestly, with decency and propriety, not with braided hair or gold or pearls or expensive clothes, (10) but with good deeds, appropriate for women who profess to worship God. (11 ) A woman should learn in quietness and full submission. (12) I do not permit a woman to teach or to have authority over a man; she must be silent. (13) For Adam was formed first, then Eve. (14) And Adam was not the one deceived; it was the woman who was deceived and became a sinner. (15 ) But women will be kept safe through childbirth, if they continue in faith, love and holiness with propriety.

    Has the church been right to think that this passage imposes certain permanent restrictions on the ministry of women? Certainly this is what the passage, as translated above, seems to say. Women are not to teach or to have authority over men. They are not to do so because of the order in which God created man and woman and because of how man and woman fell into sin. However, many in our day think this passage does not require the contemporary church to limit the ministry of women. Others think it may limit only certain women from certain ministries in certain circumstances.

    Yet there are many sincere Christians who agree with everything just said but still do not think that 1 Timothy 2:8-15 puts any general restriction on the ministry of women in the contemporary church. Are they right? Has the position of the Christian church on this issue for twenty centuries been the product of cultural conditioning from which we finally are able to free ourselves?

    We do not think so. We think 1 Timothy 2:8-15 imposes two restrictions on the ministry of women: they are not to teach Christian doctrine to men and they are not to exercise authority directly over men in the church. These restrictions are permanent, authoritative for the church in all times and places and circumstances as long as men and women are descended from Adam and Eve.

  2. Galatians 3:28 There is neither Jew nor Orthodox, there is neither slave nor free, there is neither male nor female; for you are all one in Christ Jesus.

  3. the false teaching that is besetting the church at Ephesus sounds very similar to the general problem that seems to lurk behind 1 Corinthians. In both situations, the problem arose from within the church, involved the denial of a future, physical resurrection in favor of a present, “spiritual” resurrection (see 2 Timothy 2:18; 1 Corinthians 15, coupled with 4:8), and led to incorrect attitudes toward marriage and sex (1 Corinthians 7; 1 Timothy 4:3), toward food (1 Corinthians 8:1-13; 1 Timothy 4:3, although the specific issues are a bit different), and, most importantly, to a tendency on the part of the women to disregard their appropriate roles, especially vis-a-vis their husbands (see 1 Corinthians 11:2-18; 14:33b-36; 1 Timothy 2:9-15; 5:13-14; Titus 2:3-5).

    There is good reason to think that the problem in both situations was rooted in a false belief that Christians were already in the full form of God’s kingdom and that they had accordingly been spiritually taken “out of” the world so that aspects of this creation, like sex, food, and male/female distinctions, were no longer relevant to them. It may well be that these beliefs arose from an unbalanced emphasis on Paul’s own teaching that Christians were “raised with Christ” (Ephesians 2:6; Colossians 2:12; 3:1) and that in Christ there is neither “male nor female” (Galatians 3:28). What Paul would be doing in both 1 Corinthians and the pastoral epistles is seeking to right the balance by reasserting the importance of the created order and the ongoing significance of those role distinctions between men and women that he saw rooted in creation. Whether this specific interpretation of the data of 1 Corinthians and the pastorals is correct or not, the similarity between the battery of problems in the two situations strongly suggests that in Ephesus, as in Corinth, a tendency to remove role distinctions between men and women was part of the false teaching. Very likely, then, Paul’s teaching about the roles of men and women in church ministry in 1 Timothy 2:11-15 is occasioned by the need to counter the false teachers on this point.

  4. I think from any standpoint in your discussion, you would either need to keep the Word (in this case being preached by Paul), either literal in all cases, or figurative in all cases. To move from a literal interpretation and then to a figurative would leave you correct in your interpretations, from which ever side you stood.
    A vacillation here, would create it’s own interpretation simply by fiat.
    As far as leading to incorrect attitudes toward sex, I think you have it reversed. Incorrect attitudes toward sex
    were in the world before the Gospel. Here in Corinthians, Paul is trying to work within the confines of those attitudes, to produce a harmonious relationship between those previously disrespected roles.
    I don’t think false teachers is the issue, but rather pride. If it were prideful for a woman to teach, how much less prideful, and then graceful, for a man to allow it. This act alone would allow the man to remain superior, by a more superior act of grace. The Kingdom of Heaven is within you.

  5. I am coming from a literal view point only all the verses, again are about false teaching that was occurring in the early church. Galatians 3:28 the context is addressing faith or observance of the law there is nothing in the context addressing teaching positions in the Church.

    17:21 nor will they say, ‘Look, here it is!’ or ‘There!’ For indeed, the kingdom of God is in your midst.”

    This is a far better translation than “in you.” Jesus would never tell the hostile Pharisees that the kingdom was inside them. The reference is to Jesus present in their midst. He brings the kingdom. Another possible translation would be “in your grasp.”

    • The law is what you are attempting to follow.
      Where there is no law, there is no transgression.
      Galations 3:25 But after faith has come, we are no longer under a tutor.

      Coloss 1:27 To them God willed to make known what are the
      riches of the glory of this mystery among the Gentiles:
      Which is Christ in You, the Hope of Glory.

  6. the law was 316 commandments given by God to the nation of Israel.
    1 Timothy 2:8-15 is not part of the law. 1 Timothy 2:8-15 is instructions to the early church about worship.

    • Yes, but it is possible to take an instruction and make a law of it, or make it legalism, which puts you back und the law, because it is not freedom.
      You might also take into consideration in these that it says I Paul, not the Lord says

      (8) I want men everywhere to lift up holy hands (9) I also want women to dress modestly, with decency
      (12) I do not permit a woman to teach or to have authority
      These are rules that Paul set for his own ministry, and are not the Lord’s instruction.
      I also do not believe that they are in answer to false teaching.
      You are free to believe what you prefer, these are only my insights and a few points worth pondering from my point of view.

  7. The Bible is Both of Divine and Human origin. The Bible is Gods Message to man It does not merely contain the Word of God, It is the Word of God here is excellent teaching on the Bible. http://www.arielm.org/dcs/pdf/mbs037m.pdf

    • Jesus is the Word of God. And in Him is no darkness at all. Are there not twelve hours in a day. If any man walk in the day, he stumbleth not. Walk while you have the light. If any man abide in me, he stumbleth not.

  8. To: All comments, From: A man that God is showing His truth, through the scripture, by the Holy Spirit. No doubt in this man’s mind that Rachel is being taught by the Holy Spirit! — Jesus said to live by every word out of the mouth of God, which every word came through the mouth of the prophets. God told Isaiah, Jeremiah, & Ezekial to go to the rebellius people and speak every word that I tell you; they will not listen but tell them anyway. — Jesus, speaking to the woman at the well; she went to her town and told everyone; after two days of Jesus teaching the town, the people told her, “it is no long from your words that we believe, because we have heard Him for ourselves.” — PEOPLE! if you do not understand these passages & do not understand what Rachel is all about, then you are as Jesus said,” Is this not why you are wrong that you know neither the power of God nor the scripture.”

  9. I listen to the video Rachel posted she said the sin nature was brought into the world by the two of them (1:38 in the video) that is incorrect Eve brought the sin nature upon herself. Adam brought the sin nature upon the world that is why Christ had to be born of a virgin, the sin nature is passed down by the male (Adam). Christ being born of a virgin He did not inherent the sin nature passed down by Adam to the male. She also said at 3:56 that eve brought death to the world. again eve brought death upon herself not the world that was Adam who brought death and sin to the world. Just look at the verse she posted in the video 1 Corinthians 15: For since death came through a man, the resurrection of the dead also came through a man.
    The verse says death came through a man not a man and a women.

  10. D. I think you are correct the blood comes from the male. I think it would be fair to ask why that is an important distinction for you? The Word says, God created He them, male and female create He him, so I believe that Rachel is correct as well. Genesis 5:2 Male and female created he them; and blessed them, and called their name Adam, in the day when they were created.
    The sin nature comes from man, but we learn sin from both parents. I think Rachel is saying that the greater part of Redemption will be a healing of the ‘relationship of the roles to each other’ through love, rather than to the roles themselves. Greater love hath no man than this, that a man should lay down his life for his friends. So, I believe you and Rachel are both correct. As we eat Christ’s body, and drink his blood,
    we are made into the new creation. We are a new Adam, so we have a new relationship. A greater relationship than Adam and Eve, because now In Christ we are members one of another. Hence our discussion is a relevant one, because it is part of our redemption, through relationship. We are not one for or against one another, in Christ’s eyes, but we are formed together in love.

  11. Why is the understanding that sin is passed on by the male. Why is that important. Why is any truth from the Bible important, if it is from God you better believe it is important. What does the verse from Genesis have to do with the fall besides mentioning the word male and female. we do not have to learn sin it is something that is rooted in our DNA. Yall just use verses from the Bible to back up some imagined idea about humanity and God with no Biblical base for your statements. I have seen that in other discussions on this blog. example where you said We are a new Adam, we are not the new Adam. Christ was the new Adam. Also where does it say In the Bible that we have A greater relationship than Adam and Eve. The mind set of this blog is Universalism and that teaching is a false teaching it sounds good on the surface but when look at from a Biblical view point it does not agree with scripture.

    • I think mainly you missed the part of God’s Word that is about Love. The Bible is about a Love Relationship, with the Father, and each other, not head knowledge.
      (NKJV) Matthew 11:25 At that time Jesus answered and said, “I thank You, Father, Lord of heaven and earth, that You have hidden these things from the wise and prudent and have revealed them to babes.”

  12. Matthew 21:12 Then Jesus entered the temple area and drove out all those who were selling and buying in the temple courts, and turned over the tables of the money changers and the chairs of those selling doves. 21:13 And he said to them, “It is written, ‘My house will be called a house of prayer,’ but you are turning it into a den of robbers!”
    A quotation from Jer 7:11. The meaning of Jesus’ statement about making the temple courts a den of robbers probably operates here at two levels. Not only were the religious leaders robbing the people financially, but because of this they had also robbed them spiritually by stealing from them the opportunity to come to know God genuinely.

  13. False teaching and this blog is full of it

  14. House of prayer; Jesus said “your house” will be left unto you desolate. When one is taught by the Holy Spirit: denominational religion has been done away with; it is now a one to one relationship with Jesus. “Beleif” is worship! If one goes to a building of seclusion, with like-minded people, with one man standing on a platform above all the people, speaking his opinion of God and one believes him, what is the person actually worshipping? What did Paul mean when he said, “Bless you and the church in your house? — Untill one chooses to believe every word out of the mouth of God and commit to following (to the best of one’s understanding of God’s ways), the person will not be taught by the Holly Spirit! In which case one is not a child of God, but only one standing at the door knocking, with Jesus saying, “depart from Me for I never knew you” Signed: Eldon Ward

    • God is not angry at people or where they worship, or their worship style, and He is a God of leadership. A denomination, is not a religion, any more than a family is a religion, it is a God ordained, place of worship, under His leadership.
      The Gospels are about reconciliation and love, He is drawing people to Him, not driving them away.
      We serve a God of love.

  15. God, Himself will choose their delusions! —For not believing every word out of the mouth of God and not following as close as possible in the ways of God, He has sent strong delusions upon people; so strong (mainly denominational & evangelical preachers, whom twist the scripture to their own destruction) that if it were possible would even fool those whom hold the two things that makes them a child of God. —The two main factors of antichist (beast kingdom) is in the deceived definition of Jesus’ church & God is not the same today nor on the final day as He was on the day of creation. (1.) the son of perdition takes his start by saying he is a hand-me-down-Peter(flesh &blood). Jesus said the fact that God teaches us through His Holy Spirit, is the rock of Jesus’ church. (2.) Isaiah said there will be a new heaven & a new earth; the Sabbath will be held forever in the new heaven & new earth. Yet, God warned in Daniel that one would come with the “thought” to change God’s times & law; and Constintine did; and the hold world wondered after the beast and worshipped his image! —In believing God, instead of man, one will see that it was not the commandments that were nailed to the cross but, the denominational-legalistic bonds on the law! —I am only a man & I condemn no one. My goal is to reveal some of the depths of satan. Only the two above mentioned things(in sincerity) will produce a personal relationship with Jesus! E.W.

    • The only thing that warrants a strong delusion, or is a strong delusion, is if you are living in Sin. If the Pope believes in Jesus Christ, for his salvation, and is not living in Sin, he is in no delusion. If a Catholic priest believes in Jesus Chirst, and is not living in Sin, he is in no delusion. Jesus said, judge not according to the appearance, but judge righteous judgement. As the mustard seed grows throughout the earth, it’s branches extend into all those who believe. God’s goal is not to reveal the depths of Satan, but to reveal the depths of Christ. There is none of us who can claim the whole counsel of the Holy Spirit. That is the preemption itself that will make You the antichrist, when you claim to be the judge.

  16. I am not really sure about what you are trying to say but it seems like what you are against is what is happening on this blog. a person (Rachel) is giving her opinion on the Bible but her opinion does not line up with scripture. She is not teaching the Bible she twist scripture to lineup with her views. a warning sign should go up for anyone when she says that God has reveled this to her today. The revelation has ended, when the cannon of the Bible was closed. God gave these scriptures 1000’s of years ago there is no new revelation.. Here is a good article about misuse of the Bible……………….
    One of the curious phenomena of recent times is how Christians have been using the Bible. Rather than recognize that it is a book made up of 66 books, each written to a specific people for a specific reason, we tend to wrench verses right out of their contexts because the words agree with what we already believe. Sometimes believers say silly things like, “God gave me a verse today.” What’s wrong with that? Two things: First, this approach to Scripture does not honor the divine authorship of Scripture. God gave the verse at least 1900 years ago. You may have discovered it today, but it’s been there all along. To say that God gave a verse today is really an existential statement, as though the Bible didn’t become alive until we read it a certain way. But revelation has ceased. It’s all there in the Book. This manner of speaking almost sounds as if revelation continues. But the work of the Spirit today is decidedly not on the cognitive level: he is not bringing us new revelation. His work in relation to the Bible is primarily in the realm of conviction: he helps to drive home the message of the Bible, once it is properly understood. Second, this approach (i.e., the “God gave me a verse today” approach) to Scripture does not honor the human authorship of the Bible. When Paul wrote to the Galatians, he wrote a coherent, holistic message. He never intended for someone a couple millennia later to rip verses out of their context and wield them any way they so chose! Certainly we have a right to quote verses of Scripture; but we do not have a right to ignore the context, or to make them say what the language cannot say. Otherwise, someone could come along and say “Judas hanged himself”; “Go and do likewise”! Hence, one reason for the abuse of Scripture is due to a lack of respect for the Bible as a divine and human work. In this approach the Bible becomes a magical incantation book–almost a book of unconnected fortune cookie sayings!

  17. There are several points to comment on. In order to discuss this, the implication by your involvement in this discussion would seem to imply a willingness to communicate with other people. Obviously, by joining a discussion of this nature, the implication is inherent, that others do not hold your full view. Therefore are you willing to discuss, and learn from others, or are you just preaching? For instance, I agree with some of your statements, but not all of them. I am not a universalist, which you seem to insist on. Labeling others does not benefit a discussion because the implication is that you have nothing to learn. Jesus discussed the scripture with others because He was interested in their welfare, and wanted them to learn. He understood that they did not know all the Old Testament, or He would not have been sharing. His intent was not to condemn, but to edify. He said, I condemn no man. Why should You? Are we communicating here, or are you Looking for fault. I am sure you could find it. Jesus could have found fault, but that is not His mission.
    A reasonable discussion is welcome, but I don’t happen to agree with about one half of your statements that you have just made. I do agree with the other half. You can close your heart or open it. The issue is the ‘heart’ of the message, not just the information. People differ on how they hear the Word. Their is an individual element, concerning Revelation in the Bible because it is by Faith. God looks at your heart, not just your intellectual understanding. He is a personal savior, and friend.

  18. What is knowledge? How does one obtain it? What is sin? What is rightousness? What is Baal worship? —All these things are defined in the scripture. “All knowledge comes from God!” — “Noah believed God and it was reckoned unto him for rightousness—Abraham believed God and it was reckoned unto him for rightousness” — Baalam heard the words of God but continued on from the thoughts of his mind. The entire scripture is God’s love(grace) to man that if man will choose God’s way then man may have eternal life with the Lord. Untill one chooses rightousness, they will never experience the presents of the Holy Spirit (this statment I can give with a gold bonded guarntee; it is the same as one that was never in war trying to tell about war to a combat veteran; it is only repeating what they have heard:no personal experience). One must rely on a personal relationship with Jesus! The word “continue” in “continue to grow in grace and knowledge” says no one has enough intelligence to read scripture and automaticly have understanding. Furthermore, the Lord, in verious actions & words, indicated it would be (for the most part) the poor & unlearned people that would choose Him! E.W.

  19. i see there are two different anonymous blog posters no wonder anonymous did not make since. That clears up a little of the confusion still i never call anonymous a universalist what i said is the mind set of this persons blog is universalism. She has said in a previous topic on this blog that all people will be saved and that is a universalism concept

    • You may be correct. Yes, I think there are many different people who comment, and some would probably be so. Sorry for the confusion.
      No, I do not believe all people will be saved, DTaylor, and I think many of your teachings are correct. However, I do believe in revealed personal truth, as long as it does not condradict the word, which I think is your main concern.

  20. well one of my main concerns is using scripture out of context as the article i posted said you can make the Bible say about anything when a person ignores the context.

    • I agree with that. The problem occurs on several different levels though.
      Context can be misunderstood very easily, and we still have areas to learn in that realm.
      Then there is a spiritual context, which can be misunderstood, when the Revelation of Jesus is misunderstood. In this realm is where new revelation breaks forth. For instance, in the case of Martin Luther, when he discovered the true significance of one verse– “The just shall live by faith”.
      That opened the door to the rediscovery of faith, which is both corporate,
      and private, allowing true communication with the Father, through the Holy Spirit. Hence forth we know no man after the flesh, but after the spirit.
      I do share your concern about making the Bible say things it doesn’t say.

  21. Then there is a spiritual context, which can be misunderstood, when the Revelation of Jesus is misunderstood. In this realm is where new revelation breaks forth. For instance, in the case of Martin Luther, when he discovered the true significance of one verse– “The just shall live by faith”.
    That opened the door to the rediscovery of faith, which is both corporate,

    I am not sure new revelation is the best way to describe that. I see what you are saying but you know at that time there were people who understood that out side the catholic church and i believe even before Martian Luther in the Catholic church. I see that is Gods grace no matter how we as humans will try to add to the Gospel, God will always have people who understand so the Gospel will continue to be taught and received. I mean take today, how we (Christians) have added works to the Gospel by saying baptism, repentance, confession of Christ, feeling sorry for our sins, obedience, making Christ lord of ones life, imploring God for salvation is all part of salvation. when clearly from the Bible the one condition for salvation when a condition is given for salvation is belief that Christ die for your sins and rose one the third day 1 Corinthians 15: 3,4 over 200 times when a condition is give for salvation Faith/belief is stated to be the only condition. just read the Gospel of John and you will find Faith/Belief only for a person salvation. Look at John 20:30 Now Jesus performed many other miraculous signs in the presence of the disciples, which are not recorded in this book. 20:31 But these are recorded so that you may believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God, and that by believing you may have life in his name.

    • repentance, confession of Christ,, obedience, making Christ lord of ones life. I think these three are relevant. All of these at some point will play a part in your salvation. Not the original work of Salvation, but
      I think ‘confession of Christ’, would be an accurate description of that. I think the important thing is not to get bogged down in semantics. A question I would like to bring up is– I assume you ‘see’ Christ as a living savior, and not just a list of sayings? The point being, is that Jesus is alive, he has a sense of humor, and he is not as uptight about doctrine as you may think. Do you have a revelation of the Present Day Ministry of Jesus? If you do, you will understand that he has many things to teach us that are not what some would consider Orthodox. If you stay in line with the Word, and walk with him, there are many things to learn that relate more to freedom in Christ, than just Logos. The Logos, should bring freedom. 2 Cor 3:6 Who also hath made us able ministers of the new testament; not of the letter, but of the spirit: for the letter killeth, but the spirit giveth life. I hope I am being relevant here. And being a blessing.

    • i wouldnt trust Martin Luther as far as i could throw him,….Luther NEVER,..thats NEVER renounced the roman church ‘queen of heaven’….

      The Holy Scriptures renounce the queen of heaven and her cakes,..and her son…and so do i

  22. A believers salvation is in three parts. 1st there is our (past) salvation from the penalty of sin Justification (when we first believe Christ died for our sins no works are involved ) next we have our 2nd area sanctification part of our salvation which is separate (post justification salvation) not a part of our justification salvation. It is the present area of the deliverance of the power of sin this is where baptism, repentance, confession of Christ, obedience, making Christ lord of ones life should fit in to this area of our salvation where works have a part. then finally our 3rd. area the future aspect glorification, deliverance from the presence of sin. a point should be made after a person experiences the justification area of salvation that person is saved going to heaven. the sanctification area is where we work for our rewards in heaven and for the 1000 year millennium

    • I agree. However I am not a believer in the once saved always saved doctrine as it has been used by Calvin.
      Staying free from sin is not a works issue for me. It’s a commitment issue.
      where you are under Christ’s lordship. You shouldn’t be under the power of sin, when you are saved. Christ said, I give you power over all the power of the enemy. I really think salvation is in one part, then you are simply walking that salvation out. However when we stumble, we have grace, which I have needed many times. David said, blessed is the man to whom the Lord will not impute sin. However, I think the Calvin message is inaccurate, and opens the door to it.

  23. D Taylor

    “experiences the justification area of salvation that person is saved going to heaven.”….

    what Scripture backs this strange belief up?….

    as for the 1000 year Millennium,…The Messiah, The King of Israel, The Son of God Almighty is Coming Here,..to restore,to judge..and to finish of the setting up of the Prayed for, Kingdom, here on EARTH,..so His Fathers Will is DONE,..here on earth….and at the end of that 1000 years,..when death is put under His Holy Feet,..He, Immanuel, King of kings,..will hand over The Kingdom to His Father, Most High , God Almighty,..Who Will Leave His Holy Heaven,..Come Down and and Judge/Subject His Son,..on this very Earth

    well that what it says in my Bible,..from start to finish,..but especially, in Jeremiah and Isaiah and Rev

  24. well i am far from a Calvinist one of their main talking point is perseverance of the saints which i do not agree with. The Reign of the Servant Kings by Joseph Dillow. Most clearly reflects a good majority of my beliefs on what the Bible says about salvation.

    thethreshermansson
    do you equate eternal life with going to Heaven. How about the book of John take your pick of about 80 verses. here is a few John 3:15 so that everyone who believes in him may have eternal life.” John 3:16 For this is the way God loved the world: He gave his one and only Son, so that everyone who believes in him will not perish but have eternal life. John 3:36 The one who believes in the Son has eternal life. The one who rejects the Son will not see life, but God’s wrath remains on him.
    The thief on the cross Luke 23:40 But the other rebuked him, saying, “Don’t you fear God, since you are under the same sentence of condemnation? 23:41 And we rightly so, for we are getting what we deserve for what we did, but this man has done nothing wrong.” 23:42 Then he said, “Jesus, remember me when you come in your kingdom.” 23:43 And Jesus said to him, “I tell you the truth, today you will be with me in paradise.”

  25. No,..eternal life,for those that gain it,..will be here on earth…with Immanuel,..King,..David prince…the Disciples leaders of the Tribes of Israelites,and those that make the 1st Resuerrection..and an abundance of life in every way imaginable .

    you say 80 verses,..eternal life,..yes,…in Heaven ??…which one of those 80 verses says that?

    as for,..
    Then he said, “Immanuel, remember me when you come in your Kingdom.” 23:43 And Immanuel said to him, “I tell you the truth today, you will be with me in paradise.

    now,..for my firm belief,..a little later my Dear Loving King and Saviour gave His Life for me, that DAY,…His Dear Body was laid in the Tomb,..but His Father made His Spirit Alive,..and He descended into the deep earth,into the ‘prison’ where!..the disobedient spirits were,..and still are, from the time they were put there in the days of Noah. 1 Peter 3
    ..and He preached unto them until His Father brought Him back from there and He was joined again with His Body for The Glorious Resurrection ,..to Eternal Life,…so if He died and went to the prison that day,..how on this earth did the thief go to ‘paradise’?

    Immanuel,..as Written in Scripture didnt go to The Father to Receive His Glory until after He had spoke with Mary ..then went for approx 8 days, according to Scripture,…so that passage of the thief going to paradise that very day is nonsense when applied to Scripture,…READ, it carefully,..the thief says WHEN you COME in your Kingdom!,..now as far as im aware My Saviour and King hasnt come in His Kingdom YET…..

    and i would think that thief is dead in the dust like everyone else …and id say the pen of the lying roman/pagan/greek scribes,..put the comma before today instead of after it.

    but then again in my Holy Scriptures,,,,,Today,,,,, is applied to each and everyone of our hearts!

  26. Paradise was the section where the souls of all believers of the Old Testament resided after death. When the resurrected Christ ascended to heaven, he brought with Him the souls of all believers who had died up to that time. He transferred them from Paradise to Heaven (Eph. 4:8-10)
    No human being went to heaven until Christ entered into the presence of God (The Father) as a resurrected Man. If Jesus was accepted in His humanity, that would mean God had accepted Jesus’s sacrifice for sin. Only under these conditions could believers be admitted into the abode of God. Christ had opened the way for believing mankind to enter into the presence of holy God. Believers who die in the Church Age go directly into the presence of the Lord ( Heaven ). http://www.arielm.org/dcs/pdf/mbs104m.pdf

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