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Stirring The Deep

Self-Perfecting vs. Living Faith

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Self-Perfecting vs. Living Faith

Exploring the Spiritual Blueprint
of Consciousness

 

The author of living faith, the Spirit of Truth, has asked me to let go of many dynamics that strengthen self-determination and embrace others that prepare my soul for the divine consciousness. For example; judgments that are full of error for non-judgmental mindfulness, a sense of lack of value for a belief in an inherent significance, fears of all kinds for love, complaints of ingratitude for gratefulness in everything, being results-driven to being spirit-driven. Overarching these all is letting go of self-perfecting for a transformation through living faith in divine love. Not that I do these at all perfectly, but at this point I rest in knowing it’s about awareness not perfection.

When the paths of self-perfection and faith in divine love are understood there is no comparison. The first is like obtaining to become an intelligent caterpillar, and the latter a magnificent butterfly.

Self-Perfecting

Self-perfecting is a belief system and lifestyle of an evolutionary progression toward perfection within the framework of one’s current consciousness. It’s the philosophy of spiritual growth in the concepts of self-help, self-actualization, and self-enlightenment.

Living Faith in Divine Love

Living faith in divine love is a belief system and lifestyle of a growing awareness in the inherent lack of the self-determined consciousness along with the potential of perfection beyond perfection through oneness with the divine consciousness.

The soul in its simplest form consists of the elements of expression that shape its individuality, and the constructs of relative truth that shape its beliefs. The soul can either be governed by the self-determined consciousness or the divine consciousness (Spirit of God).

Self-perfection enhances the current consciousness. Living faith in divine love forfeits this consciousness for the divine consciousness. Self-perfection draws from a self-generated strength to produce change. Living faith draws from a divine strength for total transformation. In self-perfection, the self maintains control. In living faith, control is relinquished to the Spirit of Truth. Self-perfection views faults as weaknesses to overcome. Living faith uses them for the highest good in the journey into oneness. Not only to learn from them, but also to create a dependence on a living faith that is anchored in the divine, and thus diminish reliance on self-determination.

In living faith, instead of leaning into self-perfection as the answer to the afflictions of the soul, self-perfection is forfeited for complete governance by the divine consciousness, which eradicates all afflictions. In one philosophy, hope is in perfection through progression, in the other, hope is in perfection in the divine consciousness through oneness.

Living faith crosses the infinite chasm into divinity, that self-perfecting can’t cross. In this faith, the soul engages a power far greater than itself that flows through divine love. This power is manifested through the awareness of the inherent weaknesses of the self-determined consciousness; weaknesses that can’t produce divine love. Thus this consciousness is forsaken, versus strengthened, so the divine consciousness can govern the soul to create perfection beyond perfection. (A path established by Jesus Christ and revealed through his teachings.)

The Spiritual Blueprint of Consciousness

When sincerely seeking truth, a soul will encounter the spiritual blueprint of the consciousness. These are the mechanisms by which the consciousness functions, creates and expands. Whether a soul is on a path of self-perfecting or living faith it will learn about these structures and their inner workings. However, the belief system the soul holds determines how it will incorporate these structures.

In the framework of self-perfection, these understandings can teach a soul how to grow and become better; to self-perfect, though perfection is unattainable. For example, through understanding one’s reality is a reflective reality, the law of attraction, the interconnectedness of creation, energetic vibrations, the law of gratitude, and so on a soul can grow and enhance the experience of its current soul state. The soul tries from its current state of consciousness to live in harmony with these structures to create peace and bounty in its reality. When lived with some success, these structures enrich one’s life. They bring a sense of control over one’s reality, thus they provide some solace.

Progressing souls on this path of self-perfection have discovered and shared beautiful and wonderful aspects of the spiritual blueprint that have greatly benefited the human soul. Yet this path can become very burdensome. It relies on a soul’s self-generated strength, though it may seek assistance from the spirit realm. Thus, this framework strengthens and relies on the enhancement of the self-determined consciousness. Despite all its efforts, the soul is still bound to the inherent weaknesses of this consciousness, and along the way has strengthened its attachment to it. This path of progression never ends in its advancement toward perfection, for a soul without the divine consciousness can never be perfect.

In the framework of living faith, these structures are learned to a depth that the soul learns only the divine consciousness can live harmoniously in them. Understanding the spiritual blueprint isn’t to enhance the current consciousness, but to prepare the soul with the constructs and divine desires for oneness with the divine consciousness.

In living faith, the soul is anchored in the divine. The soul is refashioned not through self-determination, but through the Spirit of Truth. The strength of self is exchanged for strength in his divine workings. In this higher trust, a trust beyond the self, the Spirit uses all weaknesses for the soul’s development and to strengthen the living faith, thus the working of divine love covers every mishap. It’s tapping into a higher power to recreate the soul, thus the soul is released from the burden of doing so. As a result of engaging this higher power, a very deep work is done in the soul so it’s prepared for oneness. The purpose of desiring in be in harmony with a spiritual structures isn’t to self-perfect, because of its endless path of progression bound in separation from the divine, but to grow in awareness of the spiritual blueprint to prepare the soul for oneness.

Though the path of living faith is less burdensome, it has its challenges. Letting go of control isn’t easy. Trusting the Spirit comes through an active continuous engagement that takes dedication. Reconciling a soul to a divine love brings a very deep awareness of the soul’s inherent weakness that can be difficult to bear. Yet, the Spirit creates the perfect balance of weakness, divine love, and purposefulness in all struggles to accomplish his work in the soul.

In my desire for a divine consciousness, I’ve been taught that instead of incorporating these understandings into a self-perfecting scheme for myself, they are used to prepare my soul for oneness, which is the progenitor of harmony within the spiritual blueprint of consciousness. The Spirit incorporates their understanding into my soul in relation to the divine consciousness. As I desire the soul state reflected in them, I seek to live by them in faith knowing that my even lack to do so is also serving my faith. Divine love covers all by using all in its perfect orchestration of a divine soul. Through this dynamic my soul is prepared with the constructs to receive the inner working of the divine consciousness.

Living faith in divine love, though sown in weakness, is infinitely more powerful than self-perfecting because it’s anchored in the divine consciousness. Thus, it produces a much greater victory; a victory of a divine soul living in perfect harmony with all creation.

 

 

 

Author: Rachel

My passion is cultivating a deep relationship with God and helping others to do the same. I LOVE sharing with others insights that God has taught me and hearing what God has taught them... thus my blog, Stirring the Deep. My focus is on a relationship, not a religion. Life is in the relationship. I believe in a balance and unity of body, mind and spirit. I feel it's important to nurture all three for they all affect each other. I try to live in the present, where the Holy Spirit is. And I try to do all with the motive of love. I've come to believe life is a journey and not a destination. It isn't about perfection, is it about growth.

32 thoughts on “Self-Perfecting vs. Living Faith

  1. Like music in words My Sister, expressing and aligning with precisely what I experiencing, like I am just emerging from the cocoon and spreading my wings …

    God Bless

  2. wOw. I’ll type a little but I am speechless. Linear thought can’t express what
    I truly want to express.
    What you have put down here is so amazing. I mean. I am so amazed by these words and the timing of everything in it. The time that I read. The timing and order of the words. This is one of the posts that is truly timeless. It’s many bridges of understanding that no matter where one is in there journey, you don’t lose anyone. Bookmark this or copy to your texts. You will always get new understandings from these words. It truly is the is. I know I am so thankful for you.

    • Hi Travis, Thank you so much for your words. I often get amazed at what the Spirit teaches me; the perfection, interwoven-ness, and simplicity of it all. I’m thankful to share some of what I “see” but even more so when it is received by another as yourself. It was a gift to me and to pass it along is also a gift.

  3. In other words we cannot manufacture love, it must come to us as we are obedient to His will and by doing so we “let” this mind be in us which is also in Christ Jesus? It is He who does the work in us as we learn to be still, listen, and obey. We have attained much when we simply love the other regardless of who they are or what they have done. What is expected from one is not expected from another. We learn our place and follow that path. One may be instructed to obedience in silence and another to “go”. One can be disobedient by doing what is only asked of another. So it is important to “be still” and do what is asked of us and not judge another that may not be asked to do the same. It really comes down to having respect for others for it really is about who we are, not what others believe or what they have done or not done…or what they may think of us. We follow the path God has laid out for us.

    • Hi Sonny, Some great points. We each have our own path as we each have our own purpose, and we learn what we do and when we do according to our individual purpose. To respect our journey and another’s is to not try to force them to be where we are or for us to be where someone else is but to see there is a perfect plan for each one of us and to honor that individuality, while honoring our connectedness. Following the Spirit of Truth, the Spirit that was in Jesus Christ, thus they spoke as one, is the way to fulfilling our purpose – for he teaches us what we need to know when. And as you mentioned … seeking to honestly love is the revealer of many truths. And while we may each have this intention how it looks in our individual circumstances will vary. This is a gift and a blessing to live in the balance of connectedness and individuality.

      • I find that balance in understanding and in the life I live when being around unbalance while not judging tends to test my faith for a never ending Faith building in the question of am I around somethings thats hurting my balance. Patience, it is revealed at some point by staying in council with my Lord on every matter in every second of the day. This makes for the what some may feel a scary ride but I find it is the most amazing, especially knowing I am not forsaken. Knowing by testing your faith thru experiences. Witnessing while not judging gives you the faith to jump off higher cliffs and knowing there is a cloud of love right there to catch you while you serve His propose without really knowing you were serving until later what has happened
        Scary but safe. Stronger and stronger faith thru these experiences of not judging others and In The Lords time is being all that you can be at whatever point one is in there journey. These kinds of rides truly take place if… Just sharing a perspective. The simple thing is to say to yourself. What would Jesus do? The simplest thing is the hardest thing.

      • Travis, What you are speaking of is precious to learn. What would Jesus do is the same question as what would divine love do? I find the Spirit constantly reminding me to let go of my judgments of myself, others, and situations … for nothing is what is seems and my judgments usually just cause harm to myself and others. This state of mind opens our soul to truly love in a likeness of divine love, and regards of the situation this love is what is needed above all. To not force love, for it can’t be forced in giving or receiving, but to simply sit in it in faith and be its pillar, and trust in this level of faith in divine love’s workings is powerful upon our souls and others. Gentle, yet powerful. And I agree scary but safe. In this openness we are letting love be our defense and protection and nothing else … nothing tied to judging whether it be pride, fear, ego, control, or anger. It is a beautiful space to reside in and create between ourselves and others.

    • Sonny, it is such divine communication going on here when this post of Rachel’s I shared with this one particular person is the same person I spoke of about what you were sharing with judging. So good. So good. Thank you for the divine wisdom you share. Amazed every day. See the awesome thing is that Rachel’s post sparked your reply in which for me was the complete experience I had with that particular person I was with yesterday. Such gifts thru pain or no pain everyday. It’s all good. Of course I say that from my perspective but I know you understand what I am saying. Thank you for sharing. It’s just amazing.

      • Travis, when we see that God’s plan is one of redemption for all, how can we not love all. If God loves one in their infancy (spiritual immaturity) how can we not do the same. If we are to let this mind be in us which was also in Christ Jesus and He forgave the vilest of people who opposed Him how can we say we love when we cannot see the end of another? When we understand God’s plan and that it includes “all” people and not just some we begin to see what predestination is really all about. For example hell causes division in some religious people’s mind because their particular label is one of self appointed righteousness of themselves being saved while another is not…and often from just not seeing their judgemental doctrine as they do. However we are not to concern ourselves with this because we could just as easily be them, therefore we pray for love to enter their heart and for then to see the true benevolence of God as we have been allowed to do. When we see this earth, this journey through the valley of the shadow of death as a means to an end, a wonderful end for all people instead of one making it another not, writhing in a firey torment, we are opened to a light that includes all under the same oneness of spirit…just as our Father intended from the start.

        How can one start out as powerful and loving as God, and plan ruin for another? How can love, hate? Many see that God ask us to forgive, be kind and patient, do not return evil for evil, etc, and then He Himself does not follow His own request and does not forgive??? We could say harsh things about these who view God in such hypocracy but these are infants in the lord and as they learn to have love as a foundation, they too will see as we do…in time and in personal order and calling. Each is predestined to be finished, how is up to God through His Son.

        Love sees no evil as an end in itself, it is just a means of testing and proving as was in the case of Job. No evil and “testing” came to Job by “Satan” except by the expressed permission and will of God. We are Job.

        It is a blessing indeed to converse in peace with others who “see”.

      • And…Travis…we see by this exchange of the positive influence of how God is teaching us to have dialogue with respect is just what love does without judgement in a negative way. Of course we judge as you judged the words of another and shared them with yet another. It is when love for the other is expressed for the furtherance of that one’s welfare is judgement given in the right way. We think, therefore we judge which way we go according to those thoughts. Judgement, as most all other words have there negative and positive influences…so we choose the positive.

        For example, the word “kill” when used in the negative brings about thoughts of fear, pain and loss. Yet to “kill” is a different word from murder. One can be justified for one form of killing is yet different from another. We judge “righteous” judgement and act accordingly. All the acts of killing in the Old Testament came by judgement, whether righteous or unrighteous judgement. Love for God and His ways brings us to righteous judgement, where all the things which negate the furtherance of God’s kingdom is “killed” or done away with. What we must understand that in this judgement of killing we also by default are giving judgement to life’s continuance in the one and only true way of God. Bringing “killing” and “judging” into the spiritual realm, it is all within our temple in which we are. When we leave the negative thoughts of doing harm by “killing” or “judging” we look within our own selves and desire for all negative thoughts to be judged and “killed” or put to death. It is only the carnal negative things that are to be “killed” within and when they are “killed” all that remains is life…and life more abundantly for the “right” things have been “killed” such as jealousies, resentment, anger, judging unrighteously, condemning, and so forth. These “ites” must be killed. In the Old Testament they were natural, human “ites” but since the coming of Christ everything has moved into the spiritual realm for those who have eyes to “see” and no longer look at killing or judging in a way that brings loss but life. (In brevity the only loss of even the “ites” was the natural evil life which they lived.)

        Killing can be a harsh word as is judgement but when we start to see and understand the spiritual connotations of such words we embrace the good meaning and reject the evil. It “is”a matter of perspective, either of the positive or the negative, of good, or evil. To “rightly” divide the word one must “see” only the good in all things and choose (judge) correctly. When we come to see what a wonderful plan our Father devised for us to “give” us life and life more abundantly, we only see the positive lessons in all things, whether they be words or actions. When we turn away from a particular subject, word, or circumstance and reject it with a negative remark or response to it…we fear it because we have not gone beyond the negative meanings and entered the positive.

        You see there “is” no negative in the word “evil” unless it is taken out of context of the “whole” plan of God. This is because all things including evil is created for a good and positive end for God cannot be a God of love unless we see His purpose for the creation of “evil” …………which is for good and only good. Therefore no word or action can carry one to ruin but to hope, faith, and ultimately love….which is completion.

        We learn these life’s lessons by being exposed to the “evil” for the “good” that comes from being judged by God according to our needs for the furtherance of the gospel (word, truth, love) within.

        Travis, Rachel, if we have a common direction and good intent in our conversations’ one toward another, it brings a “oneness” in our midst that we “know” to be the “three strand cord” that “binds” us to only God in our midst. Binding to evil things can be detrimental but being bound to the good is life. It is a matter of perspective so let us “perspect” from the point of that which is good.

  4. The Lord subjected us to corruption that we might be subjected in hope in him and the present sufferings of this works are not worthy to be compared with the eternal weight of glory that shall be revealed in us. For the seed is the word of God that is sown in the corruption, and by living faith abiding in the spirit of truth, which is Christ, it grows and transforms us into that perfect image of God. It does not yet appear what we shall be but when God appears we shall be like him for we shall God as he is and be glorified by his spirit in his image of glory. In the natural if you think of God as an orange, the orange planted it’s seed and it grew a tree and what does the tree being forth? The same fruit and image from the source it came from, in that way we grow for God to receive to himself since he is the root and offspring of that eternal life. So in that way we are changed from glory (earthly), to glory (heavenly), by the spirit of The Lord.
    Listen to the words of brother Paul since I can say it no better.

    1 Corinthians 15:37 And that which thou sowest, thou sowest not that body that shall be, but bare grain, it may chance of wheat, or of some other grain:
    38 But God giveth it a body as it hath pleased him, and to every seed his own body.
    39 All flesh is not the same flesh: but there is one kind of flesh of men, another flesh of beasts, another of fishes, and another of birds.
    40 There are also celestial bodies, and bodies terrestrial: but the GLORY of the celestial is one, and the GLORY of the terrestrial is ANOTHER.
    41 There is one glory of the sun, and another glory of the moon, and another glory of the stars: for one star differeth from another star in glory.
    42 So also is the resurrection of the dead. It is sown in corruption; it is raised in incorruption:
    43 It is sown in dishonour; it is raised in glory: it is sown in weakness; it is raised in power:
    44 It is sown a natural body; it is raised a spiritual body. There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body.
    45 And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living soul; the last Adam was made a quickening spirit.
    46 Howbeit that was not first which is spiritual, but that which is natural; and afterward that which is spiritual.
    47 The first man is of the earth, earthy: the second man is the Lord from heaven.
    48 As is the earthy, such are they also that are earthy: and as is the heavenly, such are they also that are heavenly.
    49 And as we have borne the image of the earthy, we shall also bear the image of the heavenly.

    • Hi Jose .. To truly understand the meaning of these words is a great treasure. Our connection to our Creator will be unveiled within our soul and his glorious light will fill our soul – thus we will be filled with and governed by his Spirit (the “Christ”), and in that oneness we will bear his reflection and he will be revealed in Creation. The kingdom comes from within. It’s a beautiful oneness of divine love and there is no greater treasure to the human soul, thus why we are on this journey that we may be fashioned to be a soul who can receive such a spirit in all humility, joy, gratitude and love.

    • Simply and well put…as it is. We have but to wait in obedience to our conclusion. While we wait, as do others, we want as smooth a transition as possible from the negative to the positive. It is impossible to be in the will of God and want no less completion for another, all others. If we want any less for others than we want for ourselves, we deceive ourselves. Love when it has completed it’s journey is all and in all. The incomplete is temporarily in all as completeness will be everlasting in all…in time…in one’s own order.

      When we see the end in it’s completed form there is no life for one and ruin for another, although we will be found in 30, 60, and 100 fold degrees of rewards of how we have treated others in our testings and as a result, our placement will be in “one” of these “callings” and “orders”.

      When we have peace toward others regardless of the condition and maturity of “their” soul we begin to enter heaven…for heaven “is” a place of the matured mind…where there is no evil. As God matures us we transcend into greater and greater light until we radiate nothing but light without any darkness (carnality).

      • Wow, everything you said about the Old Testament and the killing off being now in the spiritual realm within our members is what I myself was meditating on also and you have basically confirmed the Word speaking within me…

        I also think that’s showing a spiritual example, like the land or space in your heart that the enemies of the spirit can try and take over and influence you drawing you to do sin. The Lord also said not to seek him in all your ways is a part of pride of life and the flesh thinking you can make it on your own self determination or will not seeking The Lord…

        Psalm 10:4 The wicked, through the pride of his countenance, will not seek after God: God is not in all his thoughts.

        But without The Lord you can’t overcome any spirits influence to oppress you and draw you to sin. But when you seek The Lord he enlarges or expands your spirit in him revealing his reality and truth and driving out the demonic influence and fleshly pulls they might have on you.

        Psalm 119:32 I will run the way of thy commandments, when thou shalt ENLARGE MY HEART.

        1 kings 4:29 And God gave Solomon wisdom and understanding exceeding much, and LARGENESS OF HEART, even as the sand that is on the sea shore.

        So I think when it says in revelation 22 he who is holy let him be holy still. It’s actually meaning they who are walking in holiness let them grow even more in holiness in the sanctification letting God expand himself in you. In the book of John it said God gives not the spirit by measure, so you can be possessed more and more into the fullness of God and his ways but it’s actually like an endless expansion into that eternal oneness and being in him who is all powerful and infinite in understanding. Just imagine the people of God such as Paul who was getting caught up to third heaven in revelation of that which is not lawful to even speak about, and John hearing things in the Revelation of the Word that he was told not to even write and seal the revelation. You can go so far even in this life in revelation and still it might as well be scratching the surface with the infinite and unsearchable riches and wisdom of God.

  5. yes~ at a point of judging within for the love of another~

    this has been a heartfelt divine communication.

    this happens in real time between people in physical reality hearing the Lord thru others etc~

    its the little joys that are gifts so huge in a day this is all so sweet~

  6. In reading Rachel and Travis’ and others comments of past and present “sufferings” and having had plenty of my own my first impression would to want to have the ability t make them go away. However, it is these very sufferings we suffer which will make them go away in the way that “God chooses.” This is the “key” to understanding our reasons for all we experience. In a democracy, a man will not last long unless he gives in the to will of the people. Saul, sought to please the people and His kingship was taken from Him. Saul had sin in his life as did David but the difference in Saul and David was…”a desire to obey” and follow after and search out the will of God. Saul sought to gain favor of the people and was willing to disobey God to do so. He took upon himself to fill the office of the priest before going into battle but He simply was not instructed to do so as was Samuel in preparing for battle.

    When we “prepare for battle” we must not “beat the air” not knowing where our battle lies. Out battle lies within and not without. Our battle is not in outward ordinances, rituals, or observances but in the minding of the spirit. When we suffer boughts of depression, despondency, or a lack of direction we need not think it strange for we are being tested to whether we will turn frm God and settle for the comforts and ease of the fellowship and praise of this world. We…wait..Luton the lord to give us direction. The mind of man so wants to please and be recognized for it that we can sometimes get ahead of what God wants us to do and get ahead of Him. We instead may have to wait weeks, months, or even years to be found in a place where we listen to that small “still” voice. We do not suffer needlessly nor without cause. Even when we fail we do not fall to ruin but to a calling a little lower than we strived for. We should set our face to desire to obey the will of God. Most people in their early walk will have a zeal and be on fire to do something for God as was the case of Saul, but never asked.

    We must learn the will of God and understand His plan to please Him. Just to do something in the name of God will not get us anywhere but delay our walk forward. It is a hard way to get ahead of God and want to please Him our way. We think after all, do we not include the word God in our sharing, we say we want to go forward, we want to please, we desire to “love” but what is it we want to love? The only way to please God is to be quiet and learn of His ways of perpetuating His plan and laying aside “our will” to please when we haven’t a clue what we are to do to please. We must learn to do it His way. Often times when we go ahead and do what we think is acceptable to God we are sent into a frame of mind which is foggy at best. Sometimes it is because it is merely a test as in the case of Job but the bottom line is, is why we do what we do, say what we say, and follow after those things and people we do?

    My main point is when we have our dark days, question ourselves as to why we are experiencing what we are experiencing it is not necessarily correction (punishment) or for naught at all. Sometimes it is just to let us know (for God already knows) if our heart is in the right place to go forward from where we now are. Do not let our failures in weakness be confused with our failures of disobedience. If our desire and intent is to please God, no matter what, and we fall to a desire of the flesh, as David did many times, it must be our desire and intent, “as David did”, to obey God and follow Him to the end of His desire for us. Do not think we will walk on water (walking above the sea of humanity) just because we believe in God, we will be measured and if found wanting, we will be further tested ever how many times it takes to “see” and understand what is the purpose of what we are going through.

    God has designed a plan which creates people willing to obey Him (eventually) thus sin was designed to bring about an understanding of what it is like to disobey as well as to obey God’s every small request…to the saving of the soul. David’s desire was to please God regardless of the people, his enemies, or the presiding priest of His day. David’s intent was to “obey” God even through his own failures of infidelity. We, as David may have many weakness’ as God has allowed…but…regardless we must always keep our eye on the goal and not let anything deter us. When circumstances come our way to measure our growth which may be God pulling back and leaving us only a knowing of what is right seemingly without any strength to fulfill our desire, we see where we are. We therefore “acknowledge our sin” and He takes it from us gradually as we move from glory to glory.

    So let us not use God’s grace, forgiveness, and kindness to tarry in our situations of weakness and error, let us know He is in all of our goings, whether in His will or not, for if not we will be corrected and held in our present condition until we learn to obey, and if in His will and pass the current test we move on to a glory we had not experienced before in this testing. We grow by understanding the true plan and will of God. We can not progress forward until we understand what and where we are growing to. If we think some are going to a place of natural burning and torture, we have not began any semblance of understanding the love of God for we do not worship a God of torment but one of being released from this vanity we are subjected to for a short time. The only torment is being outside the will of God and not understanding His way, will and the ultimate destination for “all” people.

    So again do not think it strange when testing comes our way and the degree of harshness. If we say we want to go to the end of what we see or think we see and it is a “high calling in Christ Jesus” expect all carnality to be washed from your very being on this side of the grave…through much “tribulation”. If one’s desire is to be admired and respected in the place of God and to be the “spokesman” for God without consulting God then one should expect to have their reward dimished to what they desired…admiration from others for speaking that which leads to themselves. It may be innocently and ignorantly done but ignorance is no excuse. This one will suffer many corrections until they desire no longer to stand in the way, turning people from God, thinking they do God a service.

    When we understand why we suffer the things we do and God’s love for us in it, we no longer pray that it cease to be but that it will do it’s work to the saving and reuniting of our soul to our spirit, a lovely marriage. So with peace we observe the conclusion of all…with good intent.

    If I could take away suffering I would not, but maybe I can help to explain the love of God in our suffering and the “good” purpose in it as well as in all of His plan. I speak from having walked this road, many times doubting myself as to my abilities. When I realized I had no abilities except that given by God and I was His workmanship and not my own, I began to grow according to a better way. Even though I could not believe I was worth to be thought of as worthy of any of the blessings of God, by this very admission, I then saw it is about His will and love for us and none is unworthy of His love. We just need to understand His will and way. The end does justify the means for it is the means whether good or evil which bring us to our likeness of God. None will be left, none will be forsaken, none is lost, for God determined the end of all before our trials was placed before us. God did not predestine either Jacob or Esau according to any evil or “good” that they had done for they had not even been born as of yet. God has two hands and He will use them both to accomplish His love.

    So do not question where you are in the present but keep your intent and desire on God”will.

    • Hi Sonny,

      Thanks for sharing your experiences for it is confirming of what I’ve learned and others. Your point of not to confuse our failures in weakness with our failures of disobedience is a very good one. God cares about the heart.

      When we understand the nature of divine love we are beginning to get a taste of the true image of God. This understanding comes from within us through the Spirit of Truth and not from the outside. In this love, we understand his love toward us never fails. That he loves because of who he is, thus he always loves us no matter our soul condition. And that he created us to be living creations of his love – thus the purposefulness of all we face in this reality. When you get a true glimpse of this love and what our soul will be as this love … you realize any suffering to get you to this point is minuscule in comparison. And in his perfection our trials last a moment, but our victory, which is his love in us, an eternity.

  7. Another simple thought about who God is as far as his nature: When God created us in the beginning, He created us in His love for a wonderful purpose. Nowhere in His thought did he ever think of failure or creating ones to fail in the “end” only in the “mean” time. (the end justifying the means) His purpose was to create a spirit filled “man”, a new creation, with added gifts, freedoms…and responsibilities.

    When we see God planning and creating the beginning, interim, and the end with all the same fulfilling purpose in mind, we see that the interim (earthly) journey as but a “gulf” between having less and having more. (Job’s double portion) His beginning with just so much, his interim testing to determine his reward, and his reward of the double portion for being obedient and not turning and giving up. (as his wife suggested.) the scriptures showed his weakness’, however in spite of them it showed his trust in God that God would bring him to his conclusion…and…that he would except evil as well as good for his conclusive making. So we do the same. No matter how much light or darkness comes our way, we remain true to the end. We do not have to for if we fail we still have a reward, some 60, and some 30. The 100 fold understanding is the understanding of Job, we take “all” things without complaint, murmuring or distrust. We “know” “all” things work together for those who love God. Contrary to popular belief “all” are predetermined to come out in the end, some 30, some 60, and some 100 fold. When we “see” God as He is how cannot we love Him and all others as ourselves. It is when we think others may not make it do we eat of the tree of good and evil and “try” to determine who is worthy of salvation…or not. It is this fallen, false attitude that leads one to condemn and “try” to judge but all one can do is judge falsely under these conditions for they are judging from a fallen, traditional set of rules that never apply. Yet if we obey through loving our fellow man as ourselves, without partiality, God will open our hearts and minds to see as He sees and do as He does. A person who does not love “all” cannot see “all”.

    • Sonny,

      One of the most powerful and beautiful aspects of divine love .. and there are many … is that it is all-consuming- it excludes nothing or no one. Thus, as you have mentioned, if we hold any belief that some are excluded – then it’s not this love we know but something else of the self-determined will and this error creates the wrong “image” of God. For this love also is sovereign.

      When we learn about this love from within, we find that we too begin to have this love toward others … and all of creation. It changes our attitudes and behaviors toward it in a multitude of ways. And this is an ever expanding experience. Its part of our soul coming back to the Father .. and eventually into a oneness.

      Truly the trials and challenges perfect our faith in this love. Because through them, in “obedience” that comes from a divine desire, we push into this love and learn it is the answer to all we face. It is the answer to all; every desire, every hope, every promise, everything. And it does take resolve to endure to the end, and yet when we soulfully know this love; it compels us and brings us to the end. The Spirit testifies to our spirit that this is the answer to all and that understanding carries us through the trials and refinement. And though those challenges I find that the awareness and understanding of this divine love creates equanimity in my soul that carries it through.

  8. Jose,

    Everything between the covers of the “book” from Genesis to Revelations is a spiritual journey or occurrence within your very own being. For example, the temple was outward in the Old Testament, it is within us in the New Testament. The journey out of Egypt to the “promised land” was a natural journey in the OT but in the NT it is within. Egypt was a physical fleshy bondage (carnality) that Israel was to escape from to a new land, a promised land free of slavery to the flesh. This bible account in the natural explains our entire walk from the flesh to the spirit. Once Israel entered the promised land it was full of “ites”, having many enemies of God’s people. These “ites” are our carnal natures, our anger is an ite, our jealousies another. These weakness’ of the flesh must be driven out, and yes even the little young ites, for if they are left to grow they become dominant and master over our life…so they too must go. Many wonder why a child had to be killed when God instructed. It is simply because the natural explains the spiritual. All of our weakness’ whether, male, female, or young, or the beast which also represents certain attributes of the flesh…must leave our being and be cast out or “killed”.

    So, in constructing the bible as our natural guide it had to follow the rule God imposed on Himself of creating the natural to help understand the spiritual. So it has to be. But though this may seem like an unjust God to some…everyone will be saved, no matter how old they are when God takes them, or how He takes us away. Jesus Himself, took upon Himself His way, and suffered a most painful death which lasted for hours. The spirit within one is ageless so if we leave at one or one hundred it is God who makes all things right.

    When I study the scriptures I only look for the positive in each story, for it is there if you look for it. It is when we study with the carnal nature of self do we only see the negative…and since the carnal mind is enmity with God’s spirit it cannot see the positive for it was created negative. Once we grow and God opens our eyes to the world from above we cease to see things as we did in this world below. The worm of our carnality has been allowed to morph into a height we could only imagine when we were in the form of the worm, our carnality.

    There is only one permanent reality, it is this we look for, for all things that are created in the temporary has but one purpose, to lead us to new heights of the eternal. If we choose not to divide God’s word into good and evil, and choose to only see the true purpose for it’s creation we see only “one” way and purpose…which is “all” good. No divisiveness.

    • Hi .. if I may chime in … Sonny this is such an important understanding for anyone to possess who is seeking truth. There are two versions of the Bible – one life-giving and one of separation – thus death. One produces a fragrance of life in and from our soul, the other a fragrance of death. What determines what version we learn depends on who our teacher is. Thus, Jesus instructed us that one is to be our teacher, the Spirit of Truth (Holy Spirit, Christ-spirit, the spirit that was in him) If we trust the Spirit of Truth to reveal all truth to us, then what we learn leads to life in us, unity with all creation, an increasing all-consuming love for all that is of the Father in our souls. When we learn from our own understanding and reasoning (the carnal mind) or another’s, it produces ill-judgment of ourselves and others, a false image of God, destruction, fear, and separation.

      And as we learn of the Spirit, we see as you have mentioned that the stories reflect the spiritual journey of our soul.

      The contrast is astounding when you begin to see it … and as this is true with the Bible, I find it true with everything; thus the Spirit is to teach us ALL things. There is a dark side and a light side to all we encounter … and which we perceive and embrace depends upon who we are truly trusting to reveal truth to us. So what is occurring in our soul whether we are increasing in love and unity or self-judgment and separation reveal who we are truly trusting. It’s a good litmus test for our walk. The Spirit of Truth brings life out of all things for his words are life.

    • I agree with you concerning all those things with Egypt and the natural temple, and once again confirming the word I had in me concerning even the infants that had to wiped away with the rest of the wickedness, so even the least of sin needs to be wiped out. From my understanding all are spiritual allegories in the Tanakh even with Abraham having the two sons, one by a bond woman and the other by a free. This representing the two covenants, the one of bondage with the natural Law of Moses and the other of the covenant of the free woman which was in Abraham before the law existed, which was the freedom and promise in Christ Jesus the seed not seeds many. I agree with Rachel too all things have to be looked at through the eyes of the spirit of Christ and we need not that anyone teach us cause the anointing teaches us all things.

      Though I have to say my understanding is not quite the same yet as far as everyone being saved. Because there is many scriptures that seem otherwise, such as Jesus and the workers of iniquity, he told them to depart because he never knew them. And it says do not be deceived because these certain things do not inherent the kingdom of God like fornicator, idolater, etc.
      (1 Corinthians 6:9-10)

      Jesus also says blasphemy of the Holy Spirit will not be forgiven in this life NOR the next life. That’s pretty serious to me. I don’t quite see the point of trying to reconcile people to Christ and be saved from the wrath to come if the most vilest who don’t repent or have remorse will be saved anyway.

      2 Corinthians 5:11 Knowing therefore the terror of the Lord, we persuade men…

      • Hello Jose,

        I will try to be brief, some food for thought: I will take the last first; Jesus was speaking to the Pharisees when He was addressing blasphemy to the Jews which turned away from Christ. He was telling them their blasphemy would not be forgiven in “this age” or the “age to come” however it would be forgiven in the “next age” or dispensation. God works in orders of profession. Jesus was not addressing the Gentiles or His disciples, or the church but those God took the kingdom from and He was telling them when they would be elgible to be forgiven for their sin. God clearly shows in Isaiah that even though the sins of Israel surpassed those of Sodom and Gomorrah, they would “one day” be saved and forgiven. This was in the same context as in the New Testament you reference.

        We must also understand the verse, ” As in Adam all die so as in Christ all shall be made alive, but each man in his own order, etc”. If we understand that “all” men fell under the curse of obtaining death in the disobedience of the first Adam, we have to in the same context understand if “all” men loss life through the first Adam’s disobedience, the same “all” will receive life through the obedience of the one in the second Adam…or Christ. In the English language when you use “so as” to connect two parts of the same sentence it is telling us the two parts mean the same thing, in this case the key word is “all”. It is the same “all” on both sides of the “so as” sentence. The 30, 60, and 100 fold callings were determined before ever a man sinned…and the folds are determined by the degree of obedience one has toward God. Salvation was therefore determined before there ever was a man created, however the “folds” and their respective reward for obedience is determined by our dedication to God while here. This is a very controversial subject in the religious world that is steeped in tradition and traditional doctrine believes in rituals and symbolisms more than what they reveal when understood by the spirit. As far as being saved “anyway” as some question as to why try if all will be saved anyway; This is the attitude of those who do not serve God from a desire to please and obey at all cost but one of fear of a severe punishment. When one grows and obeys to a degree that they would serve God for no thought of reward, they move into a higher level of spirit, understanding we do things because it is in the realm of truth where no darkness exist.

        I could go on using the same scriptures which seem to contradict one another to clear up the misunderstanding of limited salvation but this is not the place to get into this in a long drawn out explanation but I hope to provide a different perspective from the traditional one. Having said this there is a higher way that is above doctrine, knowledge, and tradition which is taught by Christ when He places the treatment of one another in discussing knowledge than the doctrine and knowledge itself…regardless of who is right or wrong. If a person conducts themselves toward another with a respect, tolerance and a sincere welfare for that other one, even though their view may be skewed as to it’s validity they will garner a far more approval from God than if they were factually correct in their understanding of the law but treated their fellow man with contempt and disdain for the other understanding in a different way. God’s way is above the law which few have grasped. The law was not written for righteousness (which there is no law for) but for unrighteousness. Therefore God speaks truth to truth circumventing the law. When God brings one to understand things spirit to spirit (for which there is no law) they operate without law and by the unction of the spirit. Remember the law was added because of man transgressing against God and their fellow man. This proves God’s desired method of communication has always been spirit to spirit.

        How can we truly care for the other if we are always criticizing others of different perspectives? Caring about others and desiring the best for them trumps any other thing we could possibly “know” for love trumps knowledge.

        We have to be given a certain perspective by God to possess it just as we must be given life to possess it. We cannot have what we are not given by God to have. We must learn to love all people in spite of themselves just as God does not deny His love for any of His creation. He may delay some coming into maturity because of their deliberate disobedience ( as was the Jews in His time) way out into the future of “ages” but forgiveness does come eventually to all.

        If we desire to truly love and forgive our fellow man as God desires for us to, and God rewards us for it, it will be of little consequence for us to be given to understand the lesser of things such as knowledge and facts. To love is the pinnacle of understanding so there is no knowledge greater than this achievement to love. Those who would debate and argue knowledge with those who have been blessed to love in a way which is acceptable to God does not understand that love is above knowledge. Knowledge’s only purpose is to bring one to the love of Christ. There is no end in knowledge itself. Love surpasses all things including all types, shadows, allegories and parables. This is because all scripture is given to bring us to the likeness and character of God…His loving nature. If we have love there is nothing to really question.

        Jose, I really respect the way you approach others with a different understanding , it is a true sign of substance.

        Sonny

      • Jose, another point of view and food for thought: your comment “I don’t quite see the point of trying to reconcile people to Christ and be saved from the wrath to come if the most vilest who don’t repent or have remorse will be saved anyway.”

        Speaking of the vilest of men, I can see what you mean for example, a man who is so self righteous he would kill others for having different views, he would take the purest of God’s people and put them to death for the praise of his religious masters…having their possessions confiscated and given to the “organization”. Hateful and vile, self righteous to the most extreme, wanting to stamp out every Christian on the face of the earth and would if this man had his way. Sounds like a Stalin, Trosky or maybe a Hitler? This man was Paul, and the only reason he did not rise to the level of these others is that in the era he lived the platform was not available to him, but had it been, he would have ranked right up there with them. His heart was evil out of ignorance and the scale of his death sentences imposed on others was only limited by his lack of technology as was these others. Self righteousness is self righteousness and a man’s hate for others and his actions toward them is limited only by opportunity.

        And if we just take the “event” any event on it’s face value of mass “genocide” without placing any validity to it, and classified any who would order the killing of every man, woman, and child including their livestock, we would call them the most vilest and most disposable people who ever lived. To kill and innocent baby, how can this be? Yet God Himself ordered this very action to take place more than once. And God says He raised up Pharoah for such a purpose as was needed at the time and even when Pharoah would have released the Israelites it was God who hardened Pharoah’s heart to prevent what Pharoah wanted to do. God says Himself, He is the one who puts people into power, head of kingdoms of the earth in all the nations. If this be so, all the vilest of dictators was God appointed and the atrocities committed by them was at the permission and will of God. In the time of the captivity of Judah, over a million Judaites, God’s chosen were slaughtered by the king of Babolyn, yet God gave the word to Jeremiah this would happen if the people did not obey Him.

        It “seems” unexplainable to the carnal mind but makes sense to the spiritual mind and where we once cringed at the thought of serving a God of this way, we come to understand all this is only a temporary dream and “nightmare” for some. This is why some religious folk start out wanted to serve Gos in some superficial way…not for love…but fear of torment…fear of “fire” so to speak. This may suffice for awhile and God will leave one in such a frame of mind “until” this blindness has done it’s work…and…God calls and justifies one to walk in a different way in a different understanding.

        Speaking for myself and giving all the above examples I can honestly say I see no evil in all of the above events. They are evil to the blind and fearful to the disobedient but to the enlightened we see the love of God in every action and reaction for not one thing is created and put into effect for our final resting place. Yes, the testing is severe and the dream intense but when we awake to the truth we are so grateful and appreciative to see the dream is not reality…it is only a lesson in what things would be like if God’s children were left to their own will, way and desire. To prove this very thought, look around us, look at the mess man has made for himself not including God in the equation. Man left to His own devises and thinking only about what is best for himself leads to what we are now experiencing. Man is on the verge of destroying the earth 20 times over for that is the amount of nuclear warheads available to accomplish this. God says that if He did not cut the time short man would destroy himself.

        So God devised a plan to show us what kind of place we would have if we do not adhere to His covenants, His will and His plan. It is all a dream, a lesson in futility and when we awaken to a better way after having suffered for being so “reasoning, intelligent knowing it all,” we will understand we must live together, do what is good for the “other” and give instead of get. So if we can understand that the “vilest” of circumstances is only to teach us the best of circumstances we start to see the value in “all” things. Thus when we see that “As in Adam all die so as in Christ all shall be made alive, but each in His own order” we understand that no matter the severity of the trials, tribulations, and testings, we se their purpose. Paul, as other ruthless people we know of in history but proves the forgiving nature of our Father…the severe although short lived suffering is but for the ultimate good of the recipient of it.

        Once God lets us “see” His loving nature and His reasons for putting us through this “hell” so to speak…and the salvation for all people, we see it is only our veiled off mind to the spirit that is the problem. God has brought me through the stages as anyone else of ever so increasing light that now that I see “more” as He sees and understand the spiritual side of the natural, I can honestly tell you that the short time of suffering cannot compare to a life which has no end to it. Do we think we do not need a place and method of training? For those who say why bother to try to be good if everyone is going to be saved is exactly one of the reasons we are here. Do we want to serve and obey our Father because of our mutual love or because of what’s in it for “me”? This is precisely why there are 100, 60, and 30 folds of reward. We determine our reward and freedoms by the reasons we do what we do. Do we love our fellow man and want for them as we do for ourselves? Do we prove ourselves worthy or unworthy to obtain the high calling in Christ Jesus by sacrificing for all others? Or do we settle for others doing the sacrificing for us. It has to be one way or the other. We can settle for the 30 fold and it is nothing not to desire for this is the reward of the masses. The 100 fold is the status of Christ…and…His elect. Revelation is wrote to these and these will see see the love of God in every action while others see doom. Armegeddon is darkness and terror for the carnal minded but light and the day of the Lord for those who see the “morning” approaching. It is a simultaneous event. It is the ” end” for the fearful but the beginning of the kingdom age for the loving.

        Let us not beat ourselves up because we do not understand all things for they are gradually revealed as we obey from light to light until we are swallowed up in the noonday “son”.

  9. When we understand how the natural word reveals the spiritual, the shadows, allegories, parables and types, they all reveal a most absolute truth; 1 Corintians 15:22

    For as in Adam all die, so also in Christ shall all be made alive. But each in his own order: Christ the firstfruits, then at his coming those who belong to Christ.

    Until this is understood one cannot help but judge condemningly because they believe a lie in that God will send some to suffer a terrible existence. Are we not experiencing a pretty harsh existence here on earth? Is it not hell enough witnessing the wars and injustices going on all around us and the world? Yes, I believe in a hell but it is how we understand things. It can be a complete hell on the outside and a peaceful and contented heaven within. We will experience the experience of hell as we will also experience the experience of heaven. “First the natural, then the spiritual”. Neither heaven or hell is a place here on earth or in some distant galaxy off in some ethereal place. Heaven is as the type of the tabernacle explains, it is a place and condition of the mind. The tabernacle in the wilderness is also a story of the transition of the worm to the butterfly. Under the Old Testament the veil of separation existed to keep man from peering into the place of God , the place of the spirit, the holy of holies. The holy place is the place of the soul. The journey of the soul could never reach it’s climax of reuniting to the spirit until the veil was rent from top to bottom and a way for the spirit (the head) to connect to the lower place of the soul. As in the butterfly the head and body must share a common substance for the transition to take place. The spirit and soul connect through the renting of the veil where the soul could be drawn to the spirit. (In the later more permanent temple the holy place was lower than the holy of holies as the soul is lower than the spirit and must be elevated to the spirit)

    The OT law brings recognition of death for it says “thou shalt not” so this or do that. The law is written to witness sin in someone’s life…or to the unrighteous. The righteous need no written law for they obey the witness of the spirit within. We all know what is respectful and kind, just and loving if we would resist letting our reasoning self justify by traditional beliefs and doctrines what is good and evil. As long as we think another will be lost we look for reasons to judge them either being good or evil, thus we eat of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil. Since we are all sold into the slavery of sin, it is a given fact we are fallen without someone else pointing this out. The one pointing out the sin of another (or perceived sin) does not understand we were born into sin in the hope of being delivered from it…each in our own order as God calls us out of sin.

    Once we understand and are allowed to see “all” will be saved (.though as by fire, for God is a consuming fire that will devour all the adversaries “WITHIN”)

    We say we want to be free from sin…we can only be free from sin when we see no sin in another as their primary nature. When we see others in degrees of growth such as babes, young, and then adult…instead of “lost” we see properly. We see that we all start in the natural realm and grow into the spiritual realm…as it says in the verse provided above. We “all” have this progression to grow through. Our callings and orders are different as some will be of the different orders of 100, 60, and 30 folds.

    The greatest freedom one can have is the freedom to love each and every person in the world. Once we see everyone having an order of completion it is not a matter of “if” but “when” one is called to be justified. One is not justified through any good deed they have done for justification is no more than an “appointment”. It is not a matter of right or wrongs past committed that we are justified but it is to whom God shows mercy. When one is called from the world to “come” this is the time of their “justification”. It is a new beginning. The matter of one being just or unjust is just a matter of whether one has been called cor not. There is nothing we can do while in our carnal nature to please God because the carnal cannot please the spirit. So out of darkness (sin) we are called without merit. We are in our sinful condition when we are called out of it. Man would never make any effort of his own to come to God simply because he cannot without being drawn by God.

    We are God’s workmanship, planned from the beginning to be lowere into sin and then raised back out of it. We must experience disobedience and the resulting anguish and pain of going against God’s will. This is by Gos’s grand design. He has so much better planned for us than we had before so He devised a place of schooling to accomplish His gifts to us. Sometimes I wonder just how much we should share with some because there are many that refrain from sinning just because they “fear” the lie of going to a literal hell.

    If we had not been blinded to God’s purpose and His way of teaching us, it would have been most difficult to place fear in us once we understood there was nothing to fear once it is all over. It is only once we have experienced fear that it can be taken from us for we must take on the image of the earthly to only then take on the image of the heavenly. All that we suffer, all that we experience in blindness in not seeing God’s end is so that we can experience chaos. To truly have freedom to be all that we can be, we must experience the consequences of the carnal mind going it’s own way. We must learn to be free to perpetuate the very Kingdom of God to it’s fullest extent…but…go no further. We experience “going further” in the confines of this fleshly body so we do no harm in the larger scope of things.

    We can only be free from sin when we are given the freedom to love every being that has ever been placed on this earth. If we say we love one and not another, our love is not of oneness but of divisiveness. Love is not divided as God cannot be divided. Freedom can only be when you look upon another and see their end as it were your own end. When we see one who is steeped in sin, having no knowledge that God even exist, and is poor and blind and naked…and “KNOW” that one day you will stand in God’s likeness and character “together” you will then be free indeed. We love in spite of another’s self loathing, disbelief, or what they could possibly think of us, whether it is good or bad for our freedom is not determined by anything but our relationship with our Father. Freedom is love obtained and this love obtained can only truly exist when sin is no more…for anyone. So our intent can only be our Father’s intent, our will can only be His will, our plan can only be what we know His to be. God has a plan that in the final outcome when all the ages are complete, we will all have gone through the “valley of the shadow of death” and we all will have come through it into one of the orders of degrees, some 100, some 60, and some 30.

    There is no freedom until we see without the hindrance of the carnal mind. To be loosed from the lowly realm of the caterpillar can only be accomplished when the spirit draws us into Himself where there is no evidence of the worm we were. The soul and body of our lower self is drawn by the spirit into the higher realm also within ourself until the spirit and soul is no longer distinguishable but indistinguishable. They are now one…again. Adam and Eve (spirit and soul, man and woman) are but two parts of the same spirt divided in the fall. The soul was the part of the spirit which was blinded and was cursed to live on the other side of the veil within the temple…which we are. The feminine part of us ( soul) looks for her strength (spirit) to guide her back into the oneness they once had in the allegorical garden. In reality we are the garden of Eden where God cares to walk once again in the cool of the day, conversing with Adam (the second Adam which is Christ). This will be accomplished when our spirit and soul or our Adam and Even are one spirit again. We will have come full circle.

    There is only one plan for all people.

    • Hey Sonny, sorry I haven’t answered, I’ve been working here long hours and not sure why I can’t reply to comments towards me but you mentioned traditional thinking of the institutional church. Just to clear up I don’t think from a traditional church stand point, I found God because he saved my life through dreams about getting shot to death if I kept drug dealing which scared me, I felt like God warning me too so I stopped after a while because in later time after that somebody got me interested in reading the bible and I felt convicted for making money the way I did, it was basically witchcraft and rebellion towards God. So I repented, got baptized under water then sought God even through fasting and he showed up in my room the 4th night fasting and filled me with power letting me taste eternity and really started speaking audible, through dreams and visions, and making the bible come alive. Your understanding of things is actually closer to what I believe in my 6 years of walking with The Lord, which I’m going to get to. Concerning what you said about Paul being a man killing off the saints I agree, by the grace of God he repented and was radical on the kingdom of light side rather then darkness and ignorance. He had true revelations from Jesus that were very rich.
      Also what you said about God hardening hearts and causing evil things to happen I agree cause it’s written he even caused the Egyptians to hate his own people before the signs happening.

      Psalm 105:24 And he increased his people greatly; and made them stronger than their enemies.
      25 “”He turned their heart to hate his people, to deal subtilly with his servants.””
      26 He sent Moses his servant; and Aaron whom he had chosen.

      Isaiah 45:7 I form the light, and create darkness: “”I make peace, and create evil””: I the LORD do all these things.

      And many other scriptures testify The Lord sent evil spirits and used them like tools. And the devil is subject to Gods every command and allowance like in Job, there is no arm wrestling, only the demons in obedience to the Word of God. All are his servants…

      The thing you mentioned about thirty, sixty, and one hundred fold rewards was also talking of fruit which seed had fallen in good ground and God did say some became unfruitful in other ground, when you think of it Jesus even cursed the fig tree with no fruit on it. But whatever God has not revealed to me concerning this issue of everyone being saved with the rewards, the truth will be revealed to me when I seek him and ask, it will be given to me. So I’ll simply say that and I appreciate you confirming the things I understand already that others in traditional thinking have hard time accepting or reject it completely. Though it’s proven in the very scriptures they claim to believe in. Anyway peace and grace.

      • Thanks Jose,

        I often speak of how I understand things and it is not meant in any way to disrespect another for we all have learned and changed as we have been lead. When I speak in general about things in our dialogue I may state something in absolute terms but I want you to know whether I agree with another person or not my love and respect for that person does not change. I only lose respect when the insults start flying because of another misunderstanding that love supersedes knowledge and the knowledge we tend to want to “debate” about is only to be used to further us in God’s likeness and character and not to provide intellect as we do not need to be knowledgable or intellectual to love.

        Jose, I would not be concerned about the universal salvation understanding for this understanding seems to come to people when God realizes we have come to a point to where we want to participate in His will because it is the right thing to do with no thought of fear or reward. It is a progressive journey and we must pass certain milestones. The way you conduct yourself in discussing differences in views is in fact having passed a huge milestone in our journey from carnal to spiritual. When God has brought us to this place of rest we can certainly rest from judging on the lower realm of things. When we have moved, as you describe from one way to focusing on a better path we change from “glory to glory” which in the scripture it simply means we gradually become like our true Father “through” our association with Christ.

        Christ is a way as much as it is a person for Jesus Christ was anointed to become Jesus the “anointed” as we also will become “Christ” like or anointed in the same fashion. Christ or Christened simply means to become anointed with the Holy Spirit of the Father.

        When we see one maturing in the Lord and having words explaining His character we know maturity has taken place. To change over to this place of understanding does not come by any self effort so we have nothing to boast of, it comes as God sees we are ready for the next step. So…we do not want to rush another in this next step, we want to be patient, kind and encouraging. We do not look for fault in another that we know is already there for we were all born subject to vanity….we instead pray for our mutual deliverance from this evil which besets us. When we know this other, any other will be delivered from carnality we can only see love coming to this person in the end. Therefore since we know their end we can only pray in love, otherwise we falsely Judge one to a place of condemnation. To “see” as we should is one of the most liberating view one can have. This is because it removes all carnal judgement from having to decide who is worthy and who is not of life. This thinking is eating from the forbidden tree of knowledge of good and evil because we are teying to decide what is already decided by God Himself. When God created His plan He called it good, it was man after his fall which called it evil. We must see evil was only instituted to bring about an understanding of the love of God by having a contrast to His character.

        When we see the purpose of evil and that it is meant for the ultimate good we cannot see in the realm of good and evil as did Adam and Eve after their fall. Adam before his fall had no view of good and evil, only the concept of good and everything he saw that was coming in the future was “good”. In Genesid when God finished His plan for the ages, all the ages, He called it good, not good and evil. This is because He saw it as He intended, in the eventual good of all. God saw that we being created in His likeness must be trained to not surpass the boundaries He gave to us…note getting into the territory of another. To rule and reign with God as He intends for some these must be schooled more than others. This is the area of the100 fold. The other folds are not by any means less in character, but in priviledge to rule and reign with God. One cannot rule and reign without understanding God’s complete purpose for all individuals. We should not look at these different callings in natural terms using natural thoughts and emotions because it has nothing to do with being above your fellow man, it is a matter of being equipped to bring others to a place where you are in thought, mind and likeness of the Father.

        One point that helps in this area of understanding the purpose in “higher” callings is when Christ made the statement that all authority would be given back up to the Father once all the plan was complete. This is because once we are all complete in Him there is no more flesh to rule over and correct. Death has been destroyed in other words. With death destroyed ( our fallen nature ) we can only operate in the realm of life. We have been subjected by experience to the consequences of sin and wanting to “will” outside of God’s will. God does not want us as robots not having been given an opportunity to choose voluntarily His will and way, He had to devise a plan that to “rule” with Him He had to have loyal beings to His way. So we may start out for the high calling in Christ Jesus and be found short in the end but it is no the end of us, we just “fall” into another order. If we are found lacking in the ability to love and bring all to this love, we simply become one to be brought to the likeness of God and not to the “helpmeet” of the “bringer”.

        In that all will be saved, it is a matter of what they are being saved to or from, it has never been a question of annihilation for some and not others. It is only a matter of placement according to one’s ability to serve God (or not) in their fullest capacity that we see one being “damned” off from their fullest potential. When we understand the true nature of God, failure is in itself is a reward for we can only fail and fall into a lesser reward. It is our ability to obey to our fullest potential which places us in the highest order….but if we fail…we are not lost forever, we are just lost to the potential of a specific order. In Rvealation this high order is of kings and priest, those who rule with God and those who intercede for others with God. In other words help to bring them to a place.

        When we share it is not about us or what we want others to think of us. When we share in the true spirit of things, we are sharing for the mutual welfare of all. We have or should not have any thought of being superior….we do not want to rule over another in the flesh or in the spirit for that matter, we want to see ourselves as one of many without the “pride of life” in our thoughts. This pride of life is selfish and self seeks to stand out from others. The spirit wants only to harmonize and be one among many “like” beings. This love has no pomp, pride, nor does it have a thought of “position” with God…only a character with and in God’s likeness. As Christ was the pattern and example of being the first one completed among many brethren, we know when we are born “again” we will also take on this very same likeness. Let us not for a moment think we are so special as to warrant life without end while another is lost. We must enter in to His presence where there is no death…for any. Death cannot exist perpetually as says the scripture for it will be destroyed. Life therefore cannot be destroyed once given. Life is given by taking away the death from the dual nature. When this is done it is only the life that remains…as intended from the beginning.

        It is a wonderful thing to have eyes to see that life was given before we had done anything right…or wrong.

  10. see ya at the surprise party!

    • You can’t imagine.
      We are going to be so aw struck, humbled and so grateful for being given so much for having done so little.

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