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Stirring The Deep

Losing Gravity

40 Comments

Losing Gravity

Apple tree flowers in spring

When we start to be governed by above (which is from within), the elements of this world start to lose their pull upon us. In this, our soul evolves to a higher form that is able to give and receive a purer and transcendent love.

No more do the illusions of the world direct our soul. But divine love’s breath of life blowing from within from a higher realm where love reigns. Our soul finds new expressions as it defies the gravity of the world.

With the binding ties loosed, our soul exudes truer expressions of love that quell fear, judgment, shame, lack, guilt, pride, defenses, insignificance, unworthiness and every other illusion of a finite and darkened mind.

Divine love sets us free from elements of the earthen realm that once bound us to a limited travailing existence. It lifts us up to places we’ve never been and reestablishes us as new creations that in turn makes all things new.

Author: Rachel

My passion is cultivating a deep relationship with God and helping others to do the same. I LOVE sharing with others insights that God has taught me and hearing what God has taught them... thus my blog, Stirring the Deep. My focus is on a relationship, not a religion. Life is in the relationship. I believe in a balance and unity of body, mind and spirit. I feel it's important to nurture all three for they all affect each other. I try to live in the present, where the Holy Spirit is. And I try to do all with the motive of love. I've come to believe life is a journey and not a destination. It isn't about perfection, is it about growth.

40 thoughts on “Losing Gravity

  1. This reminds me of why we’re here, why we were created in such a way to give us a choice in choosing love over evil. God could have created us with the inability to choose, to just give us life and we would just love having been given no thought about it. Looking at the first order of things, the natural, helps us to understand that which comes after and that is, the “why” of it all. It really does come down to a matter of “choosing this day whom we will serve.” Do we not want a love in our life that has chosen us over all others for the simple quest to love and be loved without “any” other “outside” influence? Not chosen for money, power or prestige? We call this love one of devotion.

    So first given the natural in type, we look at the spiritual in reality, God desires for those to “come up” to His presence by choosing Him over all the desires of the flesh, the spirit given to the flesh to tempt us and cause us to choose. Instead of just being spirit as we were, as our pattern was in Christ, in our creative process, the plan consisted of “a beginning”. This beginning of this process was began and recorded in Genesis. It is recorded we were given life before our fall into this life, but how would God choose and separate ones into His three categories of 30, 60, and 100 folds? The plan is there for all to see, the how, the why and His ultimate purpose in this creation. It was that we were and are given the ability to choose, to choose to eat of the “Tree of Life” over the “tree of good and evil”. Two choices were created, His way and our way. Since the spirit of God cannot be tempted by evil and does not choose evil by His very nature, His likeness of spirit given us was put behind a vail, metaphorically speaking, which the vail in the natural temple represented. What was given to us in the preplanned fall was a dimly lit world of doubt and confusion, our fallen soul was “vailed off” from seeing where she came from in the spirit. As a result of her being lowered, “Her disobedience” landed her on the other side of the vail, in the temple of her body. So as Adam led us all into the fall by this one man’s disobedience of minding his weaker part, the soul, we also in our fallen condition through no fault of our own…begin to choose how we want to live by picking our fruit from one of two trees provided by God.

    This separation is really an illusionary one as so oftened described in the bible, just as dreams are not real, neither is this temporary life God describes as an illusionary or dream state. Our soul has just been blinded for awhile but not truly separated from God. We know this by understanding the type in the picture of the tabernacle. The spirit and soul, although being spoke of as being “two” we are both parts of one temple. We are that temple and we are spirit and soul until our vail is rent and we see the spirit “in a higher” room in the temple. With the vail pulled back, we begin our “calling” as our soul is wooed by the spirit to come up and become one with Him again.

    At this moment in our calling, or the vail pulled back” we have been given choice. We can resist our calling and God, by remaining in our soulish condition, making our choice to mind the things of the flesh which are the influences of the five senses of the human body (satan) and keep going down the path of the natural plane or we can turn our backs on the world at this time of our calling and “begin” to see a higher purpose in this life. We “choose” the spiritual man over the natural man at this point. As we have an “intent” to rise into the upper chamber in the temple we are given a measure of God’s spirit as we “ask” to be delivered from our vices and influencers of this “other man” of the flesh.

    The allegories and types are wonderful examples and explanations of how God made us and why. We must by choice seek Him out. We do this by changing our diet from the tree of good and evil to that of the Tree of Life which is another name for Christ. Christ is the “anointing” it is more than a person, it is a way, Jesus was the first “anointed” Son of God, but will not be the last. As we also receive our anointing by choosing life over death we will also grow toward the upper room in the temple, the room of the spirit. Our soul, as a natural bride, will take on the name (nature) of the bridegroom until the time of the betrothal is complete, the purification time, and at that moment of the spirit accepting the soul (behind the “wedding” vail). This is the moment spoken of in the scripture of the two becoming one. The woman, bride, or soul has taken on the nature of the man, groom or spirit for she has at this time been given a new “last” name “His” name. We are given a new “name” in the natural but a new “nature” in the spirit.

    We must look for the love of God in all of our waking moments, we look for His appearing, we by choice are moved into the 30, 60 and 100 fold callings. The harvest is separated as it is gathered.

    To summarize this observation, we are not created robots, programmed to fulfill a predetermined love, but given a choice so that we learn to give, to give back to God first as we can only return what love we have obtained. We then share this God given love with all. We pray that we do not confuse the love of the natural world with that of the spirit. This is why we are “invited” to choose this day whom we will serve. The love given and accepted by choice has no equal.

    This is the reason for the fall…that we may be risen for: ” As in Adam all died, so as in Christ all shall be made alive, but each man in His own order.”

    The better we are to God and to our fellow man, we are chosen for better things. We must choose the unadulterated love, a love with no alterior motive of having a position of authority over others. This spirit is of the natural man which is first, Must be put to death, through the cross of following Christ in the manner of Paul’s admonition of allegorically dying daily. If we die daily to the natural man, we will live daily unto the spiritual man. As we ( our soul) faithfully wait for our betrothal period to be fulfilled, our anticipation grows, we do not have a relationship with the “other” natural man any longer. This is where we have been unfaithful to God, our soul having sought the love of another. We therefore have made ourself ready by choosing to wait for our true love by rejecting the momentary pleasures of being gratified by our senses.

    We either see the “book” as life or as death. It administers both, through the first natural law, or the second law of the spirit. The “book of life” will be opened to us once we choose to leave the natural law of outward rituals found in natural temples made with human hands, and choose life to be administered not in type in some exterior temple, but in our very being, the true temple of God. Wherever we take the true temple we have always our place of worship.

  2. I took this from my notes just now, it seemed so fitting for the subject at hand.

    We “see” so much in similarity that our differences in perspective should not deter our likeness. It is a true love for all that completes ourselves in “him” it is not our lack. We must see from “his” perspective, giving up our perspective of self. We’re may be on different sides of the mountain, not seeing the other at the base, but we all of a sudden see the same reaching the pinnacle. We each then can share our beginnings at the north , east, south and west perspectives having lived in different shadows of life cast by this same mountain. This mount Zion, of the inner man cast no more shadow for the spirit cast no shadow, only the natural. We leave the natural without to gain the spiritual Zion within. It is a blessing to know we shall regain our site one day having become as He is.

    There is no condemnation in us for any, only encouragement. Condemnation was given to us in “our fall” at our natural birth into the valley of the “shadow” (not the real) of death. That was the point of condemnation, never to be condemned again from “that point” on for from that point it is about “re”conciliation. Therefore if we continue to condemn another after their initial condemnation we make ourselves judge and jury out of sync with God’s plan as He intended. Therefore we spend our time perpetuating in God’s reconciliation, and not in Satan’s condemnation. There is a time and purpose in all things, there “was” “a” time for condemnation and there is a time for reconciliation. Again, after one’s natural birth, one is never condemned again by God but it is all about growing from that point of the fall to it all being uphill from there. When we condemn another, that “was” condemned, not to be repeated we sin in continuing this condemnation. Once born, we are participate in the love of the regenerative process of reconciliation as prescribed by God instead of continuing to condemn one who has been forgiven at the moment of condemnation. What God has forgiven at the moment of the fall, we sin by continuing the fall instead of inspiring the resurrection.

    We choose this day whom we serve, choose god’s way by understanding His plan of salvation. It is a wonderful thing to see others as we see ourselves, wanting for others what we no less want for ourselves. There is no other way to be one.

    • Hi Sonny,

      I know you know this .. but I’ll share it anyway 🙂

      What makes love so beautiful and precious to the giver and the receiver is that it’s a choice … voluntary. Thus, here in this experience we are given a choice and in that process we can learn a great deal about the nature of love of the spirit. We are being made into souls that love .. and experiencing the choice is part of our soul formation. Without choice, we can’t possess the true nature of love and thus can’t be united to our Father in love. But the choice comes, when we come to know the love of our Father, until then we only know “separation” and thus yet to have a choice presented to us. And ironically when we truly “see” his love, the choice is clear and obvious, a choice for his love. But his love is “hidden” from many because of their blinding self-will (as I speak from experience), though ironically he speaks to each soul daily desiring to lead them in the ways of love. We will one day see that his love was always right there … unchanging, constant, consistent, unconditional … for its the nature of his love. But again, our “blindness” or time in the womb (in the dark) is a necessary part of our journey of being made in his likeness as souls that truly love … because they chose to.

      And what you learn of our Father’s love is that there is no separation in it … it doesn’t divide but unite. Thus, we learn that this mortal realm experience is about a “perceived” separation, but not a real separation, for nothing can separate us from the the love of our Creator who is love, for separation isn’t a part of love’s nature.

      I feel that so many words, like condemnation, hold erroneous connotations when we are speaking of our Father of perfect love. For he doesn’t condemn us .. ever. These words of separation and their relative connotations come NOT from our Father, but from our lack of understanding that we applied to him before we understood the nature of his divine love. I believe this is what you are saying. In going through this experience, we experience what walking counter to his ways creates. This is such an important lesson, again going back to choice. As souls who are being made to abide in his divine love … these lessons are simply a part of our being created … as an embryo existing in a dark womb is part of it being created. But as children, his beloved children, it is only an experience to learn. We are all born in the dark … our Father doesn’t condemn, punish, or judge us for being in the womb, born in the dark. But in our “darkness” WE condemn, judge and punish ourselves. And as we grow in his love, we learn to let all this erroneous thinking go. He set spiritual laws in place, if we go contrary to them, which is always contrary to love then we experience the outcomes. But I believe in the light of understanding his love, that there is no other or further judgment, punishment, etc. The spiritual laws do all the work. If we jump from a high cliff, we will get hurt. But in the darken womb we start out walking contrary to love thus his “laws” of harmony and we experience the effects .. pain, suffering, etc. And our loving Father only wants to keep us from pain, suffering, etc .. not put us in it. How many times I wish I would have heeded his still small voice desiring to keep me from the choices that led to pain and suffering. Yet, from experiencing the effects of my “poor” choices, I learned the perfection of his ways over mine.

      If we are willing to learn the truth and love, then we learn what is love and what isn’t and learn the nature of love, and then we will start to experience love’s effects … and desire nothing that counters it. It’s all a part of our journey. It doesn’t make the error in itself okay or good, though he works all for our good, … the whole lesson is to learn that it isn’t and to purely and willing desire our Father’s perfect will to govern every breath. So error holds its own purpose of goodness, in leading us to desiring God to direct every aspect of our being and not our self-determination. By seeing our will’s erroneous ways and ramifications, we are led to willingly and in love (which is key) desire our Father’s will to completely govern us, thus be one with Him.

      These words aren’t sufficient to describe the truths and love I’m desiring to reflect .. but I know you will “see” the depths within them.

      • Rachel,

        Condemnation is having been put here at birth, blinded, with no error or willingness on our part. It was not in that we erred that we were condemned to earth for having done wrong, it was so that our gift of life could be amplified through a “taught” willingness to love for no other purpose than we learn to want to be like our Father.

        We were condemned in innocence, from an innocent state of being, not having ever erred. God explains His purpose in the fall and it is right there for all to read and understand. If out intent is to love all, in effect we see all things through this lense of a “oneness” in spirit. If we tend to have division and separation in our vision, looking at others as either good or evil, being dual sighted so to speak, we will not see in singleness of vision.

        I understand completely what you mean about condemnation being looked at with the wrong perspective. Condemnation in reality is innocently being blinded (as in our fall) for a means to an end of our being educated and given a choice to obey His will and to what degree we are willing to go. Some 30, some, 60, and some all the way, 100. Really these are degrees of devotion and obedience.

        Condemnation put another way is this life’s experience, given at birth, and from that point on we are never condemned again for the process is about being brought out of this condemned state of mind into our personal calling. In the condemned state we learn what should not be, or how we should or should not treat others. So since we were “once” condemned, we should never condemn again, defend yes, but condemn no.

        There is a difference between punishment and correction as the true meaning of punishment is correction, so we are here to be “corrected” from our “once” condemned state. So we are in a corrective process and not in a condemning process. We are being brought back to a state of light from a temporary blinding darkness. It is “all” for our good as we must learn respect and obedience through the things we suffer as Christ Himself learned from this same suffering.

        Remember God called His predetermined plan in Genesis “good”, he did not call it good and evil. In Isaiah 45:7 God says he created evil, but for our ultimate good. We see Israel going from good and evil and God blessing them or not accordingly. It is recorded now Israel’s sins exceeded those of Sodom and Gomorrah yet He forgives them in the end, to the last one. They learned through disobedience to obey. Some learned to obey through force and severe discipline while others obeyed from a willingness to love God and His ways. This is how we are all separated into different folds, it is according to our willingness to voluntarily obey or not.

        Yes, there is something beyond the letter of the natural law and our eye must be single to see this. We can have only what we have, we can claim more, or less but God knows our measured substance as we are His workmanship, nor our own nor that of another as much as some would like to think.

        Since we were condemned once as described in the bible let us learn not to perpetuate condemning behavior in error but instead do all we can to perpetuate God’s love. We cannot serve God and condemn at the same time. It is Satan and His followers who condemn for Satan is the traits of fallen man. Let us rise to Christ likeness, forever leaving condemnation.

        I too find words insufficient to convey intent but we do the best we can. We can describe what we think a view from a certain mountain top will look like but until we go there and experience it no words can describe it, it must be experienced. Therefore we have faith and hope to one day receive all that He is. We with patience wait for it. We cannot prove the “degree” of our love to anyone nor should we, we are what we are until God gives the increase. I pray you are increased in His love just as I pray for all who read these lines.

        Isn’t God wonderful to “know?” Without condemnation.

      • Reading this and following this,
        or giving this any credibility,
        is no different than following,
        any of the written documents that
        you quoted as, being impertinent,
        to your life, and quoted as being,
        unauthoritative, and untrue.

        You’ve simply created your own
        doctrine.

        The truth does not lie inside of
        yourself, it resides in the Gospel’s
        and doctrine’s of Jesus Christ.

        Jesus said, without me, no man
        cometh to the Father.

        John the Apostle said, if you
        do not have the Son (Jesus), you do
        not have the Father.

        The Gospel of Jesus (Son), is
        the only redemption for mankind.
        This is the doctrine of Jesus Christ,
        found in the Bible.

        (In this article, the writer has placed
        himself, in the position of Jesus,
        and is proclaiming a gospel of his
        own making.
        Please note the hypocrisy of this
        article.
        This is how religions are created,
        for the only true faith is in God’s
        Son, who is the redeemer of mankind.)

        The doctrines of Jesus Christ are
        the only knowledge that will save
        your soul.
        You must repent of your sin and
        accept Jesus himself into your heart.

        There is a heaven to gain,
        and a hell to shun.

        These things are not found, through
        yourself, and your own ideas,
        without Jesus.

        I pray for you to awaken from
        deception.
        Look to Jesus.
        This is where love is.

      • A pride of “knowing” blinds us from seeing the journey of a soul advancing through spiritual understandings and sharing what he or she is experiencing along the way. There is nothing to fear in the sharing of what we are individually learning. None of us know as we ought to know, but in sharing where we are currently at …we can encourage each other along the path as we come upon similar places of understanding.

        We vehemently reject what we don’t understand. When we do understand, we instead encourage others to continue on the path of learning from the spirit of truth, and not judge how they are growing and learning. It requires a love without fear and knowing our Father watches over us all, thus we must be gentle for he is at hand.

        From my current understanding, when “Christ is in you” … it is the spirit of truth and love that was in Jesus Christ. This spirit speaks many things to our individual hearts in ways that we personally can understand that depends upon our current knowledge, frameworks and understandings. This is why he, the Christ, is our most magnificent teacher. And, this is why people can talk about a truth from many different angles and perspectives. We each vary in how these truths are spoken to us, thus the language and way we share them. And how they are spoken to us moves us from where we currently are to the next level of understanding. Each step of understanding isn’t an end unto itself, but only the next step of understanding to lead us to the understanding that follows it, and so on.

        If we are learning in spirit and truth, there is nothing to fear of deception … for the spirit of truth is faithful to lead us continually more out of misunderstandings and into the truth. We are all growing out of darkness, which is a lack of understanding, and when we start to seek with honest hearts for truth and love, then we start to move toward the light of understanding. But it is a process and not instant. If we trust in a person’s instruction, then our trust is in the wrong place … but if we trust the spirit of truth, then we can hear others’ perspectives without fear.

      • In order to engage in a commentary
        on spiritual truth, it requires more
        than, a one time statement of belief.
        Layers and layers of deception
        cannot be seen or revealed, by
        simply commenting on the philosophy
        of what one understands.
        For instance, your opening statement,
        ‘a pride of knowing, binds us from seeing’.
        Even if you analyze that statement,
        from purely a philosophical viewpoint,
        it absolutely makes no sense, at all.
        ‘Knowing something, doesn’t in any
        way make you prideful, and does not
        even insinuate, pride in any way.’
        Secondly, knowing, in a Biblical sense
        is absolutely, the only thing you’re
        (one should be) after,
        as far as truth is concerned.
        Jesus, the Lord of Heaven and Earth,
        said, ” You shall KNOW the truth and
        the truth shall set you free “.

        So your statements, to me, are not based
        on a path of any kind. They’re not based
        on the path of the Bible,
        or any other path. Basically speaking
        they are rolling, rambling thoughts.
        Good theoretical, loving, honoring, caring
        but have nothing to do with truth.
        When you started your path, you were
        all about truth.
        Now, it’s random learning.

        The Bible warns of being deceived by
        satan, and the evil spiritual world,
        so again, you are not learning from,
        the Father, your being deceived.
        The New Testament plainly warns
        of spiritual deception.
        The spiritual path you are on, is not
        evolving with Christ.
        Ok. Ask yourself this.
        If what I am saying is true, what motive
        would I have for expressing myself
        to you in this way?
        Arrogance, exclusiveness, pride,
        self seeking, a desire to exalt myself?
        None of that makes any sense whatsoever.
        The Gospel of Jesus is not a fly by the
        wind expression of spiritual ‘knowledges’,
        sought for, in higher learning, or sought
        for, through perfectionism in spiritual thought.
        Those ideas are an outcome of being
        associated with Jesus, and the spirit of
        the Lord. But the Gospel of Jesus,
        is a definite defined prescribed teaching,
        that leads to the Father, God Almighty.
        When these teachings are taking out of
        context, it leads to being influenced,
        by evil spirits and you’re enemy who is
        satan.
        Your not wrestling against me, in this
        subject matter.
        “We wrestle not against flesh and blood
        but against principalities, powers, and
        the rulers of the darkness, of this world”.
        Somewhere in your philosophical world
        view, you have let go of this fact about,
        the spiritual world, and began
        seeing all spirits as beneficial.
        So, what is my motive in speaking this
        way? I have no self involvement but
        to try and awaken you to this.

        Please understand, there are many who
        claim that Christ is~ “in them”.
        Jesus said, “many will come in my name
        claiming I am Christ, and will deceive many”.
        The Muslims claim God.
        Buddists claim God.
        No, claiming Christ is ‘in you’ doesn’t make
        it so.
        Jesus said, that at the ‘end’ he would say
        to many, ‘depart from me I never knew you’.

        If you are not learning from the Bible,
        you are not learning in spirit and in truth.
        You’re being deceived.
        The Holy Spirit of Jesus, will only speak
        in line with the New Testament truths.
        The Gospels are not all inclusive.
        They are separators between good
        and evil.
        The evil represents, satan, demonic
        spirits, and their false doctrines.
        This is part of the spiritual world.
        Once you understand this you will
        no longer, follow and believe what
        everyone tells you in the name of Christ.
        And you will no longer be offended by,
        or consider arrogant, or aloof,
        those, who bring truth to you, and speak
        truth to you, because you will know
        that they are the ones who are honoring
        you.
        Lying to people is not an honor, or honoring.
        True love, means telling the truth.
        You cannot speak the truth, if you don’t
        know what it is.
        Knowing is the highest form of spiritual
        truth because it is, what faith is based
        on.
        Jesus, said, blessed are those who
        believe and have not seen.
        Faith is not based on what you see,
        it’s based on what you know.

        ‘In Jesus’, one does not ‘grow out of
        darkness’, you are~ delivered from darkness.
        Darkness is satan, and the kingdom of
        darkness is comprised of evil spirits,
        and false lying spiritual teaching.
        Satan, attempts to deceive even honest
        people, and believers, to believe things
        Jesus never taught.
        So, you must rely on the Word, and
        be in agreement with other believers.

        Truth that is taught from different
        perspectives is referred to by Jesus,
        as a lie.

        So what am I trying to say?
        I’m trying to move your current understanding
        of what ‘Christ in you’ means,
        to a new place.
        When you accept Christ into your heart
        you are “translated from the kingdom of
        darkness, into the kingdom of Light”.
        It’s a one time deal.
        Your moved over.

        Then you have to learn the gospel,
        to know who your enemy is.
        I’m not your enemy, satan is your enemy.
        He is a liar.
        And his pastime is lying about the
        teachings of Jesus Christ.

        Fundamentalism, is not your enemy.
        Church isn’t your enemy.
        Christians aren’t your enemy.

        Satan is your enemy.
        This is a living spiritual entity and being.

        So if what I am telling you is true.
        Then I know something.
        And it doesn’t sound like I know something
        bad, it sounds like I know something
        good.
        So you need to decide.
        Am I telling you the truth?
        Are their 14 different truths?
        or One? One God.
        If you go back to “levels of truth”,
        then you’ve left the Lord Jesus.

        So, if what I am telling you is true,
        and you want to know if what I’m
        telling you is true, then test me.
        Test, Jesus, and see if he is true.
        Ask Him to prove Himself to you.

      • Anon, you may mean well.. but as long as you are disrespectful toward me, I can’t dialogue with you.

      • Notice that I continued to dialogue
        with you when you showed disrespect.
        Of which I am not accusing you of,
        because it is an interpretational issue,
        that I took in stride and overlooked.
        So, who is showing love?
        Not a fair accusation to make of me.
        No reality in that.

    • “Condemnation is having been put here at birth, blinded, with no error or willingness on our part. It was not in that we erred that we were condemned to earth for having done wrong, it was so that our gift of life could be amplified through a “taught” willingness to love for no other purpose than we learn to want to be like our Father.”

      “We were condemned in innocence, from an innocent state of being, not having ever erred. God explains His purpose in the fall and it is right there for all to read and understand. If out intent is to love all, in effect we see all things through this lense of a “oneness” in spirit. If we tend to have division and separation in our vision, looking at others as either good or evil, being dual sighted so to speak, we will not see in singleness of vision.”

      This isnt the God of the Bible i know. Condemnation is to all those who have sinned and not believe in Jesus Christ. I see…. Being born here as not part of condemnation because that doesn’t give the option in choosing to be condemned or to have life. The only reason why we are on this fallen world is because we are born through Adam and Eve whom sinned against GOD… And thus through them sin entered the world and all born from them. But to be condemned as the Christ said is to not believe on the only begotten Son of GOD. God didn’t take a clean Spirit (created being) and put it into sinful flesh and make us… That’s not GOD. This world is a test for those who chose to follow GOD, a test of faithfulness… A suppliement for the test of the tree of good and evil which Adam and Eve failed. This is what I see… Of course you could believe whatever you like, though I rather stick with the simple Biblical teachings.

  3. Love’s poison is a silent killer.

  4. Rachel, you say:

    A pride of “knowing” blinds us from seeing the journey of a soul advancing through spiritual understandings and sharing what he or she is experiencing along the way.

    There are three things that keep us form seeing God as He is, so say the scriptures; the lust of the flesh, the lust of the eye and “the pride of life”.

    The “pride of life” is what you are calling the “pride of knowing”. The pride of life is arrogance, ego, self flattery, look at what I know and what you don’t know attitude. “Look at my superiority over you as I tell you how it is as I judge you unworthy, for “I” will tell you what is wrong with you. “I” do God’s work. Etc. etc. etc.

    The big “I” is the big lie.

    So the pride of life or the pride of knowing, whichever way it is said does bind us from seeing for ones who do such things blind them selves by their own arrogance and condemnation of others. Everything you say and share can be found in the written letter of the bible.

    It needs no analyzing at all for the scriptures plainly speak likewise. It is amazing when one speaks the very love of God to others with no criticisms, no condemnation and showing all the attributes of the beatitudes and practices them for all to see as you do. When you are repeatedly accosted by others you do not return evil for evil, or in return try to find fault with all they say to defend your point of view. You do it graciously, kindly, and compassionately.

    There is clearly two ways displayed on this forum. It is plain for all to see which is given forth in a spirit of love and the other given in a “pride of knowing” and saying.

    He ask to be “tested”, well he has been tested and it is here for all the world to see and judge for themselves for the test “is” each is known by the fruit of their lips. Who is using words of kindness found in the tree of life and who is using words of the tree of knowledge of good and evil?

    One encourages love and forgiveness and belittles no one of another view and the other perpetuates simply oneself and belittles all who differ. The test has been given and the results are found in the words of each.

    Yes, we choose who we serve, we choose life. Thank you for sharing the depth of your love and understanding for it is God given. You have left the pretentious world of whom we’re asked to come out of and for doing so you have been blessed above many. Your kindness is your reward. There is a saying in the scripture that says in effect it is the natural man who condemns the spiritual person while the spiritual person condemns no one. A condemned person condemns not only others but themselves. A self righteous person sees his self righteousness as doing God’s work but we know them by their fruit.

    I know, I’m being critical….or am I “righteously” rebuking a fool. Some will say I am doing one thing and some will say I’m doing another. It all depends on “perspective”, does’nt it?

    • I think your just, really confused.
      Just a very lost young man battling
      religious philosophies in your mind,
      not knowing, and being able to find
      Christ, and find the forgiveness of
      sin. Once you find this, you can
      be extensive in your love, converse,
      and find the love of Christ, knowing
      that Christ is your all and all.

      • Ok. You want to debate. Then let’s debate.

        You claim to have found Christ. Please describe what you have found. What is “Christ?”

        And spare us the “religious philosophies” you so disdain.

  5. No. I am not interested in
    a debate.
    A debate denotes an opposing
    viewpoint.
    I was having a conversation
    with Rachel, that she began,
    with me.
    I made a response to her comment
    as honestly as possible.
    I do not disdain religious
    philosophies, and never said so.
    If you want a conversation,
    no problem.
    A conversation, is about knowledge.
    Knowledge, is, or is not, true.
    Something is true or isn’t.
    A conversation about faith,
    denotes a level of trust,
    no matter which way the conversation
    turns.
    Knowledge about spiritual subject
    matter, requires faith.
    The term disdain, and disrespect
    are not applicable, to a conversation,
    involving faith and trust.
    If you have an interest in faith,
    state what you know, or don’t know,
    or have an honest question about.
    I would have to understand your
    interest, because people have
    different level’s of tolerance for
    their ideologies.

    • I’ve been reading this blog for a while – and while I am not a christian I do like philosophy and discussing ideas. Truth is one of my favorites. I like the way Rachel describes ideas about love, truth and even god. Its refreshing and she has a knack for doing it without judging others. Very refreshing.

      You profess to know truth – yet seem far less equipped than Rachel to discuss the concept with any depth.

      So, let’s start a “conversation” about truth. Why don’t we begin with your statement in a previous reply that the church isn’t our enemy – Satan is our enemy and that Satan is a living entity.

      How do you justify that statement?

  6. So your definition of what is true comes from the Bible. Ok, then we will use the bible as your definition of truth and what love means.

    This means you believe god kills women and children without mercy and worse, that he will torture those that who are deceived by a supernatural being to eternal torment.

    Therefore, since the punishment is eternal, it can no longer be called punishment. It is simply torture for all eternity for a trespass that happened in a single moment of time.

    It seems your real enemy is god himself – as his eternal torture is actually endless cruelty.

    • I thought we covered this.
      Your references are to Satan.

      • Covered what? We are just beginning our dialog and you have not said anything. My point is that truth is always relative.

        For example, if I am sitting in a slow moving bus looking out the side window and see you standing on the curb – who is moving?

        Would I be lying if I said you were moving?

      • If you were moving, would you still have
        the comprehension that someone was standing?
        If you still have this comprehension while you
        yourself are moving, then you know the truth.
        If you loose this comprehension while in motion,
        then you have lost ‘sight’ of’ the truth.
        Therefore sight alone, does not determine, truth.

      • You didn’t answer the question and your comments have nothing to do with my the context of my statement. The point is that each one could truthfully say the other is moving. Or, each one could say truthfully that they are sitting/standing still.

        And though each statement is a lie, each would also be speaking the truth. Truth is relative to one’s internal perspective and never based (as you said) on that which you “see” externally.

        So when it comes to “spiritual” truths – why not avoid confrontation and simply ask the other to describe the perspective from which they formed the belief. If you attack one’s beliefs, you will never persuade them. If you discuss perspectives, you both will be enlightened.

      • I’m not following your logic.
        Neither statement would
        necessarily be a lie.
        But one statement would be
        untrue.
        Your perception of those
        events, would determine if
        you were deceived.
        So the confrontation does
        not enter in from the side
        of the truth.

        The term attack, you
        have chosen to use, is no less
        a perceptual term than any
        other term you have used.
        There is no attack.
        Attack, according to your
        definitions here, would only
        be a perceptual idea.

      • Definitely agree, “Verbally attacking” is perceptual. Which is the entire point.

        In your perception you believe you are “not attacking”. You even claim “there is no attack”. Consequently you don’t stop.

        Yet when Rachel tells you that you are being disrespectful (hurting) her – you claim she is wrong and even insult her.

        Wouldn’t it be better to simply apologize, can chalk it up to differing perspectives?

      • No, I absolutely was not
        being disrespectful.
        Not in any way.
        I was never given the
        opportunity to respond
        to her.
        I didn’t say this was in
        my perception,
        I said, in your perception
        because you were not
        a part of the process.
        When you end a process,
        no one can explain anything,
        and it can appear as an attack.

        I was not given the opportunity,
        and this is why and she was
        wrong.

        You misunderstood my comments
        to her.
        So it’s best to follow in your on
        comments, and have confidence
        in me, for mine.

    • No…… That’s not what the Bible says. I see that understanding a lot in atheist communities. Anonymous is just a person being used by the devil, its satanic deceptive reasoning being employed. Here I have a good book by Ellen G White, its called Steps to Christ:

      http://www.whiteestate.org/books/sc/sc.asp

      I hope you like it.

  7. God created a plan and every letter, every thought, and all of His intent was predetermined before one event took place. He created the fall and the rise from it, for good. There was no evil intent in God nor in His plan. He created a plan staring in a natural realm and ending in the spiritual realm. He created what we see as good and evil as only good. In order to process us He gave us an absence from Himself described as a vail of flesh. We were lowered into the natural realm for our ultimate good for there was never an intent to do us harm.

    A temporary separation took place in our mind because of the vail but as the type in the tabernacle in the wilderness showed, God never left our being, it’s just that we were allowed to think so. As we regain our consciousness of God in our very being we see the love of God in our processing and yes in all the excruciating pain delivered to us in the fall. As we mature in spirit and as the vail is removed we see our Father as only good and we accept His plan , the natural and the spiritual as one.

    There is no separation in God’s plan for us. It is not divided into good and evil as our fallen soul deludes to. God never called it nothing but good. It was the fallen soul of man which saw the good God created in allowing the suffering and called what she saw as evil. But God called it good. Let us not take on the spirit of Eve and separate God’s plan into good and evil. God called the evil good as well as the good, good. God’s plan is good from the fall of Adam to the resurrection of Christ. As we partake of the one we will partake of the second.

    God’s view on condemnation has brought on a question of how I see it and whether my view is correct or not. While I know God is the one who opens and closes one’s mind I will state it as God has led me. It is here for the taking or the leaving as it should be. I try to change no one as only God can give the increase. I share this with all do respect and whether you believe or disbelieve this I pray we see the greater good in our conduct toward one another than defending our doctrine.

    2 Corinthians 3
    ​ Do we begin again to commend ourselves? or need we, as some others, epistles of commendation to you, or letters of commendation from you? Ye are our epistle written in our hearts, known and read of all men: Forasmuch as ye are manifestly declared to be the epistle of Christ ministered by us, written not with ink, but with the Spirit of the living God; not in tables of stone, but in fleshy tables of the heart.
    And such trust have we through Christ to God-ward: Not that we are sufficient of ourselves to think any thing as of ourselves; but our sufficiency is of God; Who also hath made us able ministers of the new testament; not of the letter, but of the spirit: for the letter killeth, but the spirit giveth life.
    But if the ministration of death, written and engraven in stones, was glorious, so that the children of Israel could not stedfastly behold the face of Moses for the glory of his countenance; which glory was to be done away: How shall not the ministration of the spirit be rather glorious?

    For if the ministration of condemnation be glory, much more doth the ministration of righteousness exceed in glory.

    For even that which was made glorious had no glory in this respect, by reason of the glory that excelleth. For if that which is done away was glorious, much more that which remaineth is glorious.
    Seeing then that we have such hope, we use great plainness of speech: And not as Moses, which put a vail over his face, that the children of Israel could not stedfastly look to the end of that which is abolished: But their minds were blinded: for until this day remaineth the same vail untaken away in the reading of the old testament; which vail is done away in Christ. But even unto this day, when Moses is read, the vail is upon their heart. Nevertheless when it shall turn to the Lord, the vail shall be taken away. Now the Lord is that Spirit: and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is liberty. But we all, with open face beholding as in a glass the glory of the Lord, are changed into the same image from glory to glory, even as by the Spirit of the Lord.

    This chapter deals with the subject of being brought out of condemnation which was given in the giving of the law. It speaks of the “ministration” of the “condemnation” of the “law”. As it speaks of God having provided the law which is the condemnation we are held under, we are subject to it until we are released from this condemnation (or the law) when the vail is removed of the condemnation we are held under until we “see” Christ or the anointing in us which removes the condemnation. At the coming of the anointing in our hearts and minds we are no longer subject to the lower realm of types, shadows, allegories, etc, etc. We are now accepted into the full ministration of “life” having left the type the realm of condemnation. Until the coming of Christ, both literally and spiritually we are subject to a life under the law of condemnation. This world of condemnation instituted in the fall was the beginning of the natural man and he was and is subject the confines of the law through the condemnation of the law.

    Once the deliverer comes into your heart and mind through the Christ or the anointing, the law “and” condemnation is done away with. We are delivered for we live not to the dictates of the law but by the now administration of the spirit. Being under the law “IS” condemnation. God is the administrator both of the law (condemnation) and of the spirit which is life. We are delivered from the one to the other, thank God. God through His predetermined plan from condemnation under the law to the deliverance through Christ is a process from death unto life. As we were lowered into the realm of death under the law which condemnation had it’s rule, we will be delivered unto life through Christ which the resurrected life will forever have done away with the law of the exterior administration of condemnation.

    In looking to salvation we must understand what we are being saved from. It is from condemnation which gets it’s power from the law. Now when Christ comes into your heart both the natural law and what it ministers to is done away. Now do we accuse God negligently of being confined to the dictates of condemnation administered through the law? Absolutely not, we thank Him for the understanding that as we were “given” a natural mind, condemned under the law, we will be given a spiritual mind ministered through the spirit.

    The whole point in the fall from the spiritual realm was to be exercised in an existence for a short time blinded by a vail of flesh. This was so that life could be ministered back to us through a process from the natural to the spiritual. From the law to the spirit. The fall into the confines of condemnation as the scriptures so vividly explain, the rise out of this into spiritual eternal life is our focus and our goal.

    God created all things, the ministration of death as well as life. His predetermined goal was that through the fall His children would be exercised through a process from the natural to the spiritual. God assumes full responsibility for “His” plan from beginning to end. It is recorded that as we have take on the image of the earthly we will also take on the image of the heavenly.

    As much as the carnal mind cannot accept the sovereignty of God in all things, this does not change God’s plan for us in it’s entirety, in good and evil. When people do not understand that God is only good and the only purpose of evil is to amplify the goodness of God it creates confusion in one’s mind as to why God would allow evil. In Isaiah 45:7 God does not another for the advent of evil but takes full responsibility for it’s creation. In the book of Job, satan could not and did not administer one evil thing in the “proving” of job’s loyalty to God. Job was in a fallen condition, under condemnation until His full release from it by God. The way he was released was through the ministration of evil.

    By trying to absolve God of not creating evil and having the law of condemnation ministered as He did we cannot get a clear picture of His love for all. If we do not understand the full plan of God and give the sovereignty of evil to satan and another sovereignty to God for Good, the we serve or attempt to serve two masters. We cannot serve two. Our God is sovereign over all of His plan, both the evil part as well as the good.

    We grow from first the natural under law which the law cannot escape being the ministration of condemnation, to the spiritual which releases us from the law which ministers condemnation.

    Condemnation is as much a part of the whole plan as deliverance from it. We must see it in the right context and neither try to blame God or excuse His from His creating evil….for good.

    In Genesis it is recorded that when God finished with His plan to be implemented at a future time, He called it “good” and although it included the journey of good and evil, He did not record it as such. This is because His creation of evil would lead us out of it into life. Space and time does not allow for a full defense of God in allowing us a fall from His presence for only a short time of “proving” us and giving us gifts of the three folds according to our obedience.

  8. Sonny, I appreciated your writing
    here.

  9. Max, although you say your not a “Christian”, our attitude and respect and love for the other regardless of “their” philosophy or religion, covers much of what “christianity” is. I am not sure sure that I even like the name “christian” very much because it has became a name like “religion” that people have taken and attached an ego to of grandeur to, that we should not be putting forth as an attitude found in the values of what Christ means.

    So if you have a love and respect for the other as you allude to, forget about the title….for titles rob one of doing the right thing…for they wear the “religious” title of many names including the “title” of christianity which has nothing to do with the attitude of Christ.

    By your statements above I see you understand the basic “law” of civility.

    • I believe religion does the supremacy of God a great disservice, most harmful because it darkens and twists the paths of those newly seeking truth.

      Anyone seeking truth in earnest diligence soon discovers the eye opening experience that truth is comprised of perfection and love.

      Yet, even “love” is corrupted with man-made labels. Can we not see “love” in the harmony of mathematical equations? Can we not see love in the laws of planetary movement? Surely if math or movement deviated even a fraction, great hurt would befall all of creation.

      I do not disdain religious people who seek truth – and enjoy conversing with all travelers. Truth, if it can be found, most certainly exists beyond our current ability to understand. Consequently, is not the seeker eternally blessed to grow forever in his understanding of both perfection and love? Therefore, the finite mind which claims to know the truth is like a bucket of water claiming to understand the sea. Isn’t it the Chrisitan who professes “you know nothing as you ought to know it?” In this, I agree.

      Anyway, I digress. I posted only because I saw a damsel in distress, attacked by one who is unable to perceive the harm created by ignorance. She is one who paints beautiful pictures of truth and love, one worthy of my defense.

      • I do not claim religion , for living in harmony with others requires living according to principals which are above religious law. The religious Pharisees of Jesus’ day were so caught up in appearances, self gratification, what they “knew” (or thought they knew), that the “truth” that walked among them was a threat to their prominence among the other religious followers. It is no different today. People are willing to treat others with very little respect to protect a dead doctrine. While there is no one I am willing to say is “lost” in the natural sense of the word, many are lost for direction in a spiritual way.

        Truth is simply the likeness of God, His attributes. His attributes do not take a doctorate to understand or even a great understanding of the scriptures. It takes a simple desire to actually want to treat others with as much love and respect as one expects. It’s a simple principle. But… there are ones who love to be recognized for their doctrine and knowledge and they are so caught up in the appearance of self, they see little value in putting another’s welfare above their own ego.

        When one desires “truth” over “self” being recognized they grow toward this light. Truth can certainly be found for it is here for the asking. The problem is if we ask from a perspective which only the natural man can see, (as he ask for self to be raised up in another’s eyes), there will be no answer to this request. However if we ask from a perspective of wanting truth for others as well, we receive. This is because we are considering others in our quest for this truth which we think evades us. It is not evasive at all for God makes it clear this is His desire for us. It says we do not receive truth because we ask amiss, asking amiss is simply promoting self over the welfare of others.

        We must not look to religion for religion is just a set of other people’s philosophical views on who God is. Eve “reasoned philosophically” and it got her no where for we do not need to reason if we simply follow the principles layed out and recorded for all to see. For example when God said you don’t need to eat from this particular tree to continue in my life and kingdom, Eve “reasoned” instead of simply obeying.

        The ensuing process of reconciliation is to turn us all back from reasoning to “obeying”. When the plan is layed out for us to follow through simple obedience to the ways God that he provided , we think we can do better than He by debating and arguing not only with God but with others who have a different view. There is a plan that works and the reason we’re here for this short “trip” is to leave our philosophical ideas and simply learn to live by a set of principles that have always been. I see Eve as an allegory of our soul that desires the reasonings of the five senses over simple obedience.

        Conversing with others is a most satisfying and beneficial thing when you have nothing to “prove” to them…for we should share that we have and leave it for the others to decide if it is beneficial for themselves. We should be as respectful toward those who disagree with us as with those who do not.

      • The thinker needs to learn
        the difference between
        objective, and subjective.

        If you are a free thinker,
        stay free from bringing moral
        judgments against others,
        especially is discussion.

        That’s a good place to digress.

        Discuss your thoughts,
        without the bottomless well.

        Put some definitions around
        your thoughts.
        Wisdom is not just what makes
        you comfortable.

      • Thank you Max Planck. Sometimes it seems the men in their dialogue approach forget I’m not a battling buck, but a gentle doe. The female and male spirits serve different purposes … thank you for seeing this.

      • Intuitive.
        If you’re intuitive, you can probably guess what this word means just by looking at it. No? Maybe you’re not so intuitive, after all. Intuitive means having the ability to understand or know something without any direct evidence or reasoning process.
        Thank you Max Thoughtware.

      • Hmm… The word religion has many definitions. At its most common it just means a way of life.

  10. It is the uncommon sense. In one’s own time that our Father makes it so, one will see. No one can spoil it for another. Ever. Impossible. Hidden until..
    All the facts and tools are available for mass consumption and debate, but they are for… so one can… there is always a spiritual snare for even the most of the most(1%) when revealing truths as most perceive as fact or fiction according to the word. The word is living word. Living words reveal limitless understanding than just the top face value. The living word. Living.
    wOw Living… No need to fact check so much when it is revealed in ones time for there perfect O moment. Just remember. You didnt here this from me. LOL It so warm. I love Him…

    • That makes a whole lot more
      sense, than anything the thinker said.

      Living words reveal limitless
      understanding.

      • Anon, You continue to be rude on this site. While others are interacting with respect, you treat their reflections with disdain. That isn’t what this site is about, so I ask you to no longer comment.

  11. It amazes me that to fundamentally start walking in Chrst (in the anointing) we must know where to start looking for Him and His anointing. His anointing is not poured out, “outside of ourself”, but within us, in our very being, which is the temple of God in the truest spiritual sense of the natural word as well as the spiritual word. To not understand this most basic Christian principle is to: ” Actually deny Christ” because if you do not let His anointing into your heart, in His temple, you are most certainly “lost” because you have never looked for Him where He is as the following verses tell us in no uncertain terms where Christ, the anointing, the true Word, is to be found. One is certainly blind if they do not understand “all” that matters is within you.

    Corinthians
    What? know ye not that your body is the temple of the Holy Ghost which is in you, which ye have of God, and ye are not your own? For ye are bought with a price: therefore glorify God in your body, and in your spirit, which are God’s.

    Corinthians
    Know ye not that ye are the temple of God, and that the Spirit of God dwelleth in you? If any man defile the temple of God, him shall God destroy; for the temple of God is holy, which temple ye are.

    And yet for example as one on this forum keeps contradicting the very gospel they say they love will contradict another, the bible and even themselves to make another look bad. For example to ridicule the very word of God as provided in the couple of verses provided above ( and there are thousands of supporting verses) ones such as this anonymous will call God and Christ liers to substantiate their own lie. It is simply unbelievable.

    Now to not be accused of making this up to make my point here is what is said by the sept 29th reply to my statement…unbelievable…as always. This goes to show you we just can’t say the name God or Christ in the same sentence as foolishness and think we have any credibility at all. It is time for this one to start looking for Christ where he says he isn’t, then he will start making “some” sense.

    He says:

    Reading this and following this,
    or giving this any credibility,
    is no different than following,
    any of the written documents that
    you quoted as, being impertinent,
    to your life, and quoted as being,
    unauthoritative, and untrue.

    You’ve simply created your own
    doctrine.

    The truth does not lie inside of
    yourself, it resides in the Gospel’s
    and doctrine’s of Jesus Christ. End quote

    The truth does not lie inside of yourself you say?! He goes on to say while contradicting himself, and the bible, that truth lies outside oneself in a “doctrine” ? Which doctrine of Christ? Which religion? Doctrines are disputed as to which are true among the thousands of “Christian” religions. It is a shame that people label Christ as they do and then not have a clue to where to find Him.

    And yet others including myself say we should worship in spirit and in truth in the true temple which we are and we get ridiculed for it. There is a wise man and there is a fool. We know them by their choice of words and the fruit of their lips.

    Much patience has been given to this anonymous one by all that have been accosted by him. Yet he shows “no” respect for he presents himself as the sole author of truth. Yet he contradicts in almost every single sentence he writes. And yet what he believes is respected by others, however his deliverance of what he believes is not accepted because it is not mixed and given with any love and respect.

    We will continue to pray for such. It is not the person but the persons ways God will condemn to death, thus leaving his full likeness of Himself “in” His temple.

  12. …once was lost and nOw ye found…
    … it is good there is a difference…

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