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Stirring The Deep

Tough Days

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Tough Days

 

As my spiritual journey takes me into the higher echelons of the awareness of unconditional love, it also takes me deeper into the depths of my own darkness. I sense I rise into the former by descending into the latter, for one reveals the other.

The increases in the awareness of unconditional love possess a flip side. They expose the infirmities and afflictions of my soul until I’m left feeling completely undone. Where all I can do is breathe. In riding the relentless whirlwind into my own depravity, I wonder is this normal? How after all these years of walking with the Spirit of Truth, and with the awareness he has given me is it possible to descend into such depths of despair, despondency, and discouragement? The answers come as the clouds clear and I realize these tough days are a part of the journey.

To traverse an honest, real and soul altering journey, it’s necessary to travel into these shadow places of my soul that I’ve spent much of my life running from, hiding from and hiding from others for the shame I feel in them. In those places reside the seat of my weaknesses, insecurities, imperfections, and all that makes me feel unlovable.

I gave up directing my soul journey a long time ago and put it into the hands of the Spirit of Truth. He reveals to me splendor upon splendor that is beyond amazing to behold, and yet he also takes me into such depths of darkness. These descents often come upon me as an unexpected torrent as I come head to head with various levels and forms of my illusions, lies, fears, insecurities, sadness, depravity, and cruelty. Though traversing these depths create very tough days, facing the depths keeps my journey honest and from the entrapment of superficial spirituality. Ironically these trying days take me into a deeper awareness of unconditional love. They reveal to me what it means to give and receive this love in the realm of faith, and in the realm of substance.

The deeper my faith, the deeper I go into these places, which at first you would expect the opposite. I wrestle my ill beliefs, lower mind, illusions, and lies, all that challenges my expanding faith. Most of my “stuff” is buried deep. Thus the deeper I go, the more difficult the encounter until all has faced the light carried in my faith of an unfailing love. It’s part of the immortal light penetrating my entire soul, thus the entire human soul. For once I see my own state as a self-determined soul, I see every other soul with a deeper and greater compassion and love.

Someone once stated that unless you are willing to go all the way in a soulful life journey, it is better not to begin at all because those who walk honestly face all their Goliaths in the midst of all their weaknesses. The journey requires a steadfast faith that in the end the soul’s hunger for divine truth and unconditional love will be fulfilled. True spiritual practices are raw and real and are beyond mindless ritual, conformity to pre-determined thought or anything pre-determined for that matter. Though they can sooth they soul, they also tear open the soul with the purpose to let in the eternal light and create something new. It’s a journey where the Spirit of Truth is your guide, and you go wherever he takes you, high or low.

I find my spiritual guide along this journey, the Spirit of Truth, only takes me into these depths when I have the corresponding faith to face them head on and move through them. For you only face what you can handle, though it doesn’t feel like it in the moment. You feel you are at your breaking point because you are breaking. Sometimes surviving these moments is just that, you simply survive to the next moment. If our journey is an honest one; sincerely seeking after divine truth and unconditional love, then we will receive the faith we need to carry us through every whirlwind, every dark abyss, and every soul torrent.

Why journey at all if it is so difficult? Why not live in the bliss of ignorance keeping everything buried? For me, through this process, my desires are re-shaped by the hand of the Creator; desires that enable me to connect to him in an immortal oneness. I sense this journey, every high and low, is part of becoming a soul who can be one with his spirit, thus, a soul who can express the boundless and infinite potentials of divinity. A deep work is being accomplished in my soul from something beyond me yet connected to me. The Spirit reaffirms over and over that this path of dying and rebirth is the way to immortality and the greatest path I could ever traverse in this brief existence. Despite all the wrestling in my soul, the Spirit of Truth continues to say; this is the way, just keep walking in it.

The mercy of the Designer of the journey is that often the morning light brings relief. Sometimes I know if I can just make it through the day, tomorrow will be better. I stay in the inner struggle long enough to gain whatever is necessary and what that experience intended to reveal, give or remove. I stay long enough to gain the awareness that once again the only answer to every question, problem, or heartache is unconditional divine love. And only a oneness with the divine spirit of the true God fulfills that answer. And he is the only one to manifest that oneness. And thus my desire for both grows stronger and more consuming.

So if we struggle with ourselves, good. We are getting somewhere. But we must remember that the Spirit of Truth is in our corner. We are not facing anything alone though that is how we feel in those boxing matches. As we pass through the core of our deepest darkness, in the end we encounter the heart of God. He is found beyond our soul and thus, at least for me, going through all the grit and grim of my soul is part of the journey of getting to Him, the essence of truth and love; my true Source and Center. And along the way, I learn his love is the answer to everything, and that is worth everything.

Author: Rachel

My passion is cultivating a deep relationship with God and helping others to do the same. I LOVE sharing with others insights that God has taught me and hearing what God has taught them... thus my blog, Stirring the Deep. My focus is on a relationship, not a religion. Life is in the relationship. I believe in a balance and unity of body, mind and spirit. I feel it's important to nurture all three for they all affect each other. I try to live in the present, where the Holy Spirit is. And I try to do all with the motive of love. I've come to believe life is a journey and not a destination. It isn't about perfection, is it about growth.

76 thoughts on “Tough Days

  1. O! Such a symphony. the 101 🙂 Your name came up today in the most profound way. Than you for sharing
    It had been very dark but with patience and just listening sure does pay for the ones with this strong unwavering faith. You know who comes in the Light. He cant touch us, but with Jesus Christ who actually left for a little while comes back in a little while and then you go A-Ha! So profound you writing this today. Revelations are amazing! 1% Love to you sister In it to win it. The game being played in the unseen and in plain sight are the rules that have been set by Our creator. Enjoy the ride. Yes it gets very scary sometimes (BUT) Its all good when you follow Jesus no matter what. He does let you coast sometimes. That coast is sometime a wavey stormy ocean. spoiler alert for the ones who come from that vine. Everything turns out fine. Thank you Rachell for sharing what is truly the here and now. Whats next Lord. I say that with humbleness and as you know, yes fear that wisdom. It is good.
    The balance is when you are in the light the shadow is right there. So Isnt it good and even more amazing to come out of the shadows? How else would one like you get such training. It only comes thru Jesus Christ who allows us through him to Our father and access to the Holy Spirit which resides in all of us if… more on more. sometimes her needs a break. lol
    Jesus does take the otherside of the yoke and it all can be fun. Its still a yoke. So Thank you for the work you do~

  2. In checking in with you today I read this with an astute attentiveness such that it could be my own feelings, words and desires for many of our journeys will parallel with another according to one’s order and calling…for they do vary from individual to individual. I would not think it strange for everything you herein share with us is but a part of the experience of being subjected to our own nature. As you admit, we must be honest with ourselves and when we are able and “permitted” to see into the darkness of our very soul, we then can contrast what we see and admit with what we know to be the truth…that we are being processed within an unconditional love that will never fail us. We must believe in and understand without a doubt this love is real and will never leave us. We must understand God’s plan with an unwavering belief that He is only love and this love is for all… And not separated into lots of one going one way and another another.

    What will carry us through these trying times are the times we came through before…and before… And before, knowing that each cycle of seasons are times of growth…and harvest. The harvest is His love stored up into degrees of salvation until we are totally consumed with all the kindness and character that God is. If we are His children should we think it strange to be made like Him? Many say this cannot be but this “is” His plan. If we see God as our true Father, we no less will see ourselves…in time…as He is.

    We learn to love the darkness, trials and test because we are given the understanding that the more darkness we walk through and that is put behind us the closer we are to the finish of ourselves…for tomorrow’s light cannot come without going through tonight’s darkness. We must understand that as we suffer through these highs and lows we are being brought to a plane where there are no longer any mountains or valleys but all things become “level” with no up or down, good or evil, heaven or hell…but the oneness we have always longed and waited for. This “heaven” will come only in the peace of mind as we are brought out of these lows you describe. The uncertainties we find ourselves journeying through are the experiences we need to amplify that which is God likeness…when it comes…and it will…in our order and calling…this is certain. We have faith in knowing the outcome therefore we suffer the temporary, this so called life of hell’s experiences.

    When we understand in the present what God meant in Genesis when He said after creating the heavens and the earth , “It is good”, we will see that He meant all that would come after this statement was for good of every soul that would ever be born. It was “good” not “good and evil”, for the evil we experience is but for our ultimate good. It is a blessing indeed to see as God sees, that His purpose is only good for every person that has ever been created with a certain destiny for each…one of completion…after much tribulation. It is the experiential tribulations we go through which brings us to the very likeness and understanding of a “mind of Christ”.

    There is “nothing” we experience in the darkness that is not meant for us to be able to see the light as bright as it is in reality. Let us not despair for as assuredly as the night comes, comes the light…all we have to do is have faith that the “son” will rise “in” the earth which we are.

    There is nothing you share here today that many have not walked before you, including this writer, and although I cannot say my night experiences are all behind me, I can say that enough are… to know our faith can see us till tomorrow…and tomorrow…until there is no more night. Let us pray for one another that as we sojourn these test and trials…that we can have faith to know the day of the Lord awaits each night we sleep. We will eventually awaken to a day where there is never another night to experience…so just keep on keeping on, for it is a very short and experiential journey compared to what awaits us all.

    Thank you for being so bluntly honest in your sharing, it is but a truthful testimony to what you really seek and what you desire. This honesty with “yourself” and what you see…good and bad…is what will give you your hearts desire. As always I wish you well and I can tell you with no uncertainty that what you describe is part of the process. It is necessary and as certainly as you feel these pains you will certainly (because of them) know the contrasting love of God.

    Be still…and wait…it will come.

    • Hi Sonny, Wonderful points that you addressed …

      You said .. “We must understand God’s plan with an unwavering belief that He is only love and this love is for all… And not separated into lots of one going one way and another another.” — I think to see love in this way .. that is includes all, not wanting one to be separated, reflects we are gaining a more accurate view of eternal love thus our Creator. Our fallen human love separates and destroys, but divine love unites and heals. It is beautiful to behold in faith … and how I long to see the substance reflected in surroundings.

      I too have found that as I progress along my journey I see how the darkness serves the light in a multitude ways making it more of a oneness in all things as you described; though the darkness will one day pass away. It does serve essential developments for our eternal divine soul .. and this I trust and have faith in as I experience my own night seasons.

      Thanks for your words …

      • We were completed in Him in spirit before there ever was an Adam…or Eve. Understanding this life as a journey of the created soul which has a beginning and an end leaves no alternative meaning of “lost” forever. We are only temporarily “lost” in our own being as our blinded soul makes it back to the spirit from which it (she our soul) was separated from the whole. As assuredly as our soul was separated (temporarily) for our disciplinary and experiential journey to learn the ways of God in this life, this soul will again be rejoined to her Adam ( the spirit) from which she, our soul came. All that happens in between, of our soul being created from the first Adam experience to it’s fulfillment in the spirit of being being joined to the second Adam in Christ is but a necessary experience for all. These experiences are dark experiences just as they are meant to be so…When God allows our beginning as well as our completion to be seen, we not only see our journey in completion but we see the journey of all in the same completion. Our callings and orders…and rewards…are different but the journey in between the beginning and end of us are experiential to us all for no man escapes the journey for we were born subject to vanity, not willingly……etc.

        It is all good….To those who have been given understanding.

        As pertains to the completed plan, life completed for each according to the one plan of God is like a set of finished construction blueprints, in them they contain every detail in proportion, likeness, and in the construction method of building the finished structure “according to plan”. The plans are finished, proofed and agreed on before the first stone is laid. All are in agreement. The building is built according to the vision the plans convey. The vision is the goal and the goal is the vision, they are the same. The vision we are to have is of the end result. God through Christ is the master planner and builder, the plan “maker”, and as it says one jot or one tittle will in no way pass away until all is complete…according to His plan. God is sovereign, so His plan is sovereign. Nothing has been deviated from since the plans inception, no power has been usurped by anyone, All good and evil was created for good by God. Isaiah 45:7.

        Knowing each of His creation is part of the vision to be finished leaves us without doubt and all faith that all is our brethren and their end as ours was assured when the plan was completed before it’s inception. It is a predestined plan which includes all to finally be consummated in His vision. As we look around us seeing suffering within and without, we know it is a means to an end. If we were simply created as robots with no relative comparison for His love for us, we would and could have none of the attributes of God in an amplified and meaningful way. A plan of contrast had to be devised (evil) so that when all is finished we will have a gratitude and appreciation we could have had no other way. As in this life, the natural, there is something about earning your positions and rewards which makes it sweet. We most often see little gratitude in children where their parents gave them everything without the child having had to lift a finger for it. There is usually no gratitude or appreciation as it came without any effort on their part. We are born into this life that we may experience life in the natural to understand the things which already existed and exist in the spiritual world, the reality. We learn reality by being exposed to lessons in life which are only fleeting and temporary, therefore unreal. The natural school of “hard knocks” will pass swiftly as our Father predetermined He would make a quick, merciful work of installing in us His likeness.

        We will now have a contrast (of evil) to the good gift of life, upon completion of this testing to place us in the reward according to our obedience to His will, in giving up our “free will” to accept “His will” for our life for our free will leads to ruin while learning His will leads to life more abundantly…without end.

        As we comment on our perspectives we are encouraged and feel a joy unexplainable when we “know” the end of another. It is exciting, adventurous and as our truths are confirmed we participate in a love we can have no other way than in the way we “see” and this “seeing” has a substance where words have no definite explanation for our words are but a faint description of the true substance which is of God. It is only when the spirit has matured in us do words make any real sense because we are not understanding the words of another but their spirit…and it is as our spirit interprets the spirit of another can we use a humble expression of the lessor…our words. It is our spirit which makes our words become alive just as John’s tongue was touched by the fiery coals of God’s cleansing spirit. When John’s tongue ( speech) was cleansed by the fire (spirit) of God, John spoke of the spirit which was instilled within him at that moment and only those who had this cleansing fire of God also given could understand what John means. This, deep calls unto deep.

        I could endlessly converse on the truths of God as He allows…for this is our life and we come to the place where expressing “life” within is all we can do or should want to express…but we learn to “be” more than to just to “say” things. But…this forum (blog) you provide to share your journey and thoughts…is a hard place to just comment…this is because truth permeates so clearly beyond the letter. I agree the letter is but a school that brings us to the point where we leave the natural “word” as we learn to walk in the spirit “word” which is a Christ likeness. This is where we no longer have to read what we should do and be…, but come to the place where we express who we are becoming and on the the place where we can only speak what we have thus become. This is the mystery of Christ…expressing Him within in all that He is as we …become…anointed in Christ. I see that you comprehend these things and without sounding above any, I know you see these truths also. To see, believe and have true faith is to understand we are who He makes us to be, therefore we can claim no credit for any prideful thing, for we are “His” workmanship, we haven’t a clue how to make ourselves…so we give ourselves in patience for the work to be completed. He will make us complete in Him, in His likeness in His time.

        There just are no short answers…:-) ….

      • Hi Sonny, there are no short answers, for the more we begin to “see” the more we “see” how everything is connected thus one concept leads to the next. I see this much in your writing as you try to connect the dots for your readers. There are so many purposes to this simulated self-determinded consciousness, such as you pointed out. And interestingly, without seeing the darkness we would never see the light. Without this experience we couldn’t “see” our Father as we will be able to once we are through this “shadow of Death”, and in his glorious light. It is ironic, but once you start to see this dichotomy you realize this temporary reality is purposeful beyond what we can even know. It’s a necessary journey for the fabric of our soul to contain the spirit of our Father. His love is revealed in our imperfection in a way that can’t be in perfection; the beauty of forgiveness, mercy, grace, compassion, deliverance, and the many layers of love that can only be viewed from the perspective this temporary unreal reality provides. So this comes first then his glorious light, for once in the light, in the real, we are eternally home.

  3. Thanks for sharing your journey Rachel!

    Sent via the Samsung Galaxy S™III, an AT&T 4G LTE smartphone

  4. I’m amazed that you shared this, I thought perhaps this was to personal. Though when finished listening, I know exactly these experiences firsthand. So to I believe any true believer… Ellen G. White wrote about this too. I’ve put a link to a chapter of one of the books, so if you chose too… you could see.

    http://www.whiteestate.org/books/sc/sc5.html

  5. I see similatudes with these quotes from Ellen G. White:

    “The more we contemplate the character of Christ, and the more we experience of His saving power, the more keenly shall we realize our own weakness and imperfection, and the more earnestly shall we look to Him as our strength and our Redeemer…. By faith in Christ and obedience to the law of God we may be sanctified, and thus obtain a fitness for the society of holy angels and the white-robed redeemed ones in the kingdom of glory.”- Reflecting Christ

    “There is a great work to be done in the Lord’s moral vineyard; but in all the different branches of the work our faith will be tried. Who will endure the test? Who will hold the beginning of their confidence steadfast unto the end? There are many of the professed people of God who scarcely know the voice of the True Shepherd. We may have a rich experience in the things of God. We may have an experience similar to that of the prophet Isaiah. He was to go forth with the message of God, and the Lord revealed his glory to him. When he saw the Majesty of heaven, he felt wholly unworthy and unfit for the work, and he cried out, “Woe is me! for I am undone; because I am a man of unclean lips, and I dwell in the midst of a people of unclean lips; for mine eyes have seen the King, the Lord of hosts. Then flew one of the seraphim unto me, having a live coal in his hand, which he had taken with the tongs from off the altar, and he laid it upon my mouth, and said, Lo, this hath touched thy lips; and thine iniquity is taken away, and thy sin purged.” Then he was ready to give the message, and when the Lord asked, “Whom shall I send, and who will go for us?” he could respond, “Here am I; send me.”
    O, that we could understand the solemnity of the message intrusted to us! Frivolity would cease. We should feel as did the prophet, and cry out, “I am undone.” But as soon as the live coal from off the altar touched our lips, instead of complaining and talking of our gloom, we should rejoice that we were begotten again unto a lively hope, and called into the service of the King, the Lord of hosts.”- Lively hope 1889

    Hmm…
    🙂

    Could I please know, if you think these quotes are similar to what is express in Tough days?

    • When you see the deeper underlining experiences of heart that the words try to convey, I see similar reflections, What you think?

      • Hmm… I think to many don’t understand the deepth of what you convey or chose not too. Surely to my shame, I was a little like that… When I read more Bible and more of Ellen G White writings I saw my shame.

        I think they are similar in echo… Though unique in expression. ⛅

  6. Thank you once again Rachel.
    Your writings again confirm my path too.
    Once we ‘see’ the unlimited beauty of our Creator, how can we ‘stop’ our journey?
    We can not, because we have ‘seen’ and felt’ this deeply.

  7. Hi Denny, I agree … once you have “seen” there is no turning back or stopping. When you come to this point of honesty, realness and authenticity in your journey its impossible. Your life is no longer in your own hands like it was. There is something greater and deeper at work in you that won’t let you go and you don’t want it to, though at times you may not understand its ways.

  8. I have been following your journey and while we are walking a very different path the end point seems to the be the same, the lessons learned so similar. I have tried to find a way to describe this process. For sure what we are experiencing, each in our own way, is an integration and appreciation of both dark and light. In all things there is wanted and unwanted. The unwanted is always caused by a disconnection from the stream of well-being and love that is God, a disconnection from our higher selves. I have come to accept that experiencing these times of disconnection is what caused us to truly crave that connection with God. I think of it as a lesson in contrast and guidance. It seems you can’t know what you really want without first experiencing what you don’t want. God knows who we truly are and holds that knowing so strongly that it calls us to it like a homing beacon. The contrast is like a guidance system to that beacon, it is an indicator that you are off course with who God knows you to truly be. Do not struggle with the darkness, it made you who you are today, it is what allowed you to find the path that you are on now and embrace it so completely. Accept it, bless it, be thankful for it, release the struggle. Love, light and many blessings to you Rachel your words have inspired me so many times when I needed it. 🙂 Annette

    • Hi Annette, Thanks so much for your sharing your thoughts. They were encouraging and inspiring for me. Your description resonates with my own experience, and I find it helpful to hear others articulate, as you did, their experience as their descriptions bring clarity to my own experiences. Thanks for your faithfulness in posting. Rachel

      • Re reading part of this again. I think this is some thing else, which i dont know of. Could I please know, how your hatred for sin in perverse people is affected… With this more gainned awarness of unconditional love?

      • Jedi, Unconditional love extends to all regardless of their condition. So, the more I learn of this love I desire love, which is the creation of the highest good, for ALL thus I extend divine love in faith to ALL. If I don’t desire love for one, that I don’t have divine love for another, for I don’t have divine love but something else; it is all-consuming. (Again at this point the divine love we possess is through faith) I believe this all-consuming quality is the nature of divine love. It is unconditional.

        As for “sin” …which is any error (a thought, word or act that doesn’t lead to the highest good), from the smallest to the greatest, for the “small” leads to the great ones. Small and great are our definitions, but to the purity and holiness of our Creator, error is error because of the ripple effects it creates (one stray thought in the garden lead to our current state) so what error is too small not to be error in the midst of perfection? God knows the beginning and the end; he knows the effects of one stray belief, which we are all witnessing first hand from the creation story of Adam and Eve, and from our own lives. Thus I desire for everyone including myself to be free from ALL error thus all “sin” which is to be connected in a oneness with the divine consciousness of our Creator that defined Christ. And this is our end. Until then we all have error because of our self-determined consciousness. Through recognizing error, desiring to cease from it, and walking toward the love we learn about instead, our soul is prepared for the oneness to come. So ultimately, our Creator is using our error for the highest good, for all he creates leads to the highest good, for he is God.

      • Thank you… Could I please, have insight from your vantage point… On what thing, from the observations of my posting, you think could be contrary to divine love?

      • Matthew 7:6 about dogs and pigs, and GOD (Godhead) warning us against people like that. Hmm… Please correct me if I am mistaken, is there a poitn where we can love unconditional, but knowing that any more communication with such described people above… Will do no good, and thus we should have absolutely no communication with such people, ever again?

        For me, I am reminded on that Jesus didn’t say a word to the king of Jerusalem… When He was sent to Him, because I know, by my understanding… That king probation was closed after killing John the Baptist.

      • Hi, yes sometimes for a myriad of reasons it isn’t good for us to continue in a relationship; whatever the nature, because it isn’t honoring to us, thus not to them. But this doesn’t mean that we don’t desire their very best .. its just not a “healthy” place for us, thus not for them. And in this we follow the Spirit’s leading and discernment.

      • Thank you… I’ve come to terms that reading others comments on here, isn’t health for me, because they tend to contain things I can’t appreciate or things I hate.

        I think your comments are insightful and even a little inspirational for me.

        This is one example why I say the comments here are unhealthy for me:
        “Truth is not words, legalistic facts about the bible, or even about rituals people perform such as one person esteeming one day (Sunday) or another (Saturday) believing if they go to a building on one of these particular day they are righteous.”- Quote from Sonny.

        Truth is words, Jesus is the WORD, the logos that made all things… Sanctify them in the truth, thy word is truth. And the day thus matter…because there is a difference between Holy things and unholy things. The 4th commandment the only one that says remember, to keep Holy the Sabbath, 6 days you shall labour but the 7th is the day you shall rest. The 7th day has always been the Saturday… Any good dictionary will show that. I’m sure you know GOD said, if you love Me keep my commandments.
        That’s all I have in respect to give of the 4th commandment.- My responds.

        What disappointe me about this comment, is the illogical fallace and pretension, of saying keeping the Day Holy to God as ‘legalism’, which is inaccurate. Though I have seen this mentality before, what I find disturbing is that they don’t own up to thier blatant mistake. That’s just disappointing… I had pointed out that information and language cannot be separated… Because it is the logical law of Semiotics, and we can see that law in the Scripture… In the quote “sanctify them in thy truth, thy word is truth.”

        I understand now, why Ellen G White said beyond the Bible, we are not to try and underastamd the nature of God… When I read Sonny comment on him thinking, “we existed in spirit before mankind was created in the garden.”

        This is not found in the Bible. And the Bible says the morning stars are the angels… Not us. This really reminds me of Mormon theology. ⚡

        I hope your day was pleasnt. ⚡

        May you grow ever more in the way of the LORD.⚡

      • I had said a little, though I feel it’s more than a little… I don’t believe the word little expresses the affect of your actions and comments accurately. ⚡⚡⚡

      • Good tidimgs, I also believe that anonymous accoint is used by a psychopath… Because of the obvious demeanor. I read that such people with such a sinful mind are rare. Though I genuinely believe he is a dog and pig as the scripture reference.

        May you shine forth as a star in the Kingdom of the Father.⚡⚡⚡

      • I thought it would be good if I shared this:

        Last Day Events chapter 11

        Evil Angels Appear as Human Beings
        Satan will use every opportunity to seduce men from their allegiance to God. He and the angels who fell with him will appear on the earth as men, seeking to deceive. God’s angels also will appear as men, and will use every means in their power to defeat the purposes of the enemy.—Manuscript Releases 8:399 (1903). LDE 160.2

        Evil angels in the form of men will talk with those who know the truth. They will misinterpret and misconstrue the statements of the messengers of God…. Have Seventh-day Adventists forgotten the warning given in the sixth chapter of Ephesians? We are engaged in a warfare against the hosts of darkness. Unless we follow our Leader closely, Satan will obtain the victory over us.—Selected Messages 3:411 (1903). LDE 160.3

        Evil angels in the form of believers will work in our ranks to bring in a strong spirit of unbelief. Let not even this discourage you, but bring a true heart to the help of the Lord against the powers of satanic agencies. These powers of evil will assemble in our meetings, not to receive a blessing, but to counterwork the influences of the Spirit of God.—Mind, Character, and Personality 2:504, 505 (1909).

      • Hmmm… I find Sonny have said misconstrued things according to the Bible. That I think. Is to try and make me stumble.

        I pointed to the illogicallity of a quote he said. You might think this is me, trying to slander sonny, it isn’t. Im pointing out the fact that they are things he has shared, that are simply misconstrued or not part of song Biblical doctrine.

        Trying to find the comment where he put the five foolish virgins, with legalism and some thing else. To try and prove his point agaisnt the 4th commandment and Ellen G White. Though I know that isn’t the meaning behind that parable.

      • Hmm… When will you adhere to the 4th commandment? I’m not perfect, far from it… Yet I know the LORD Day refers to two things, the 4th command and the the day of judgement.

        Could I please share with you a YouTube wide about the 4th commandment… If you would look at all of it?

      • How do you stay humble, when you feel that you have been wronged… Or accused of a behavior you didn’t do?

        How do you think I could improve your comment section?

      • I accepted that I could bee more benign in my comment towards people I find of questionable morals. I dont go out trying to be a hypercrite or to judge people. But when i see wrong, am i not to judge? When i see evil, a false doctrine, am I not to stand up against it? Those I messaged, they stay silent… Yet I respond back and they remain silent. Do they not see thier own errors or admit thier own fault?

        Do they think thier doctrine right… When in truth it is wrong. I know thier is only One who can know my deepest recess. Have I spoke Ill of you or even of those I messaged… Or did I not speak according to the facts, when I spoke against thier words.

        Why do you and Sonny call me evil? Self-righteous when all I did wasn’t for self. Though I admit my early demeanor wasn’t alright.

        Why then do I recieve silence and why have I been given slashes?
        You were longsuffering towards a devil in flesh, who wanted to kill you… Yet I accept your rebuke gladly. And I am called judgemental, condemning… Evil.

        Would it be better if I leave this blog? Would you like it if I left.

      • I feel much of what I asked will remain unanswered… What is it like, to know that you are communing with GOD, how those His love, His prescese feel like?

        I don’t want to do wrong… Less I offend GOD.

      • What is the Spirit of Truth telling you Rachel, when you read my last comment?

      • …my last comment at 2:26am

      • “We should not be mad and hostile toward others because they do not have all understanding”

        —💥⚡🔥 According to your own words, you are a hypercirte… You clearly don’t understand that my rebuke is Biblical. And yet you are being hostile towards me calling self righteous etc… And puffing youself
        “I can assure you I speak from substance for I am not one who beats the air not knowing where my substance originates from”- Sonny comment from compass of unconditional love

        And you think you were not self righteous? Hubris.

        My respimds to Sonny and His rethorical crap

      • I’ve learnt here, not to care so much on what people think ( people who profess Christ) of me from you and Sonny… In practice.

        people want to call me evil, and self righteous… Because of how I rebuke, I have biblical examples of how I have rebuked, I have Bible to back up How I warned of thier wicked ways. So that the wicked could know to fear GOD.

        Though I thank you for reminding me of love, compassion, grace and mercy… I will cherish that part of the chasitment… and evil surmising, the rest Isn’t for me because that I didn’t do.

        Goodbye Rachel, I forgive Sonny for his lies of me and false teaching towards me and the indirect affect his responds in inner chamber had on me, which I find to be saturated with a sense of emotional affair.

        I forgive Travis of his vagueness which isn’t respecting of the mind, according to my values.

        Thank you for sharing your insight I believe it will help. I won’t be messaging on this blog anymore.

        I feel my prescese isn’t valued, and the lies I hear of my character tempts me. And I think it is better for me that I go and don’t come back. Ill keep you all in prayer… If thier is one thing I would share that is to be kept in mind, it is the 4th Commandment.
        It’s important just like any other. And the Sun-day law is the mark of the Beast… Eternal hell theology comes from the Vatican and the Sun-day is thier counterfeit holy day, the mark of her authority.

        Prophecy is important.. And so is having a relationship with God, but even those with relationships with GOD can be tricked.

        “If possible to deceive even the very elect”

      • Jedi, Your beliefs are very different than what I believe or this blog is about. In not having common ground, I think it is best to move on, because what I’ve been reading in the commenting isn’t beneficial, but only creates divisiveness. If there is disagreement but it is beneficial to both parties, then it’s useful. But when there is no benefit, it is time to move on. So, I would ask that you no longer comment on this blog.

      • May you be in Heaven

      • I truly desire the best for you.

      • I got carried àway with my messages… But Sonny is extremely wrong in calling me “self” righteous…. If he wants to be that he can go ahead but not I. His allegation is poison.

      • I only realize you request that I express not my belife on this blog anymore…. Because it isn’t in sync in which this blog is about and I guess because you believe it is proactive.

        I did become to zealous… and I admit my completion of my text were leaning on that path if perhaps fantasism… Though I believe my making aware of the logical fallacies and doctrinal contradictions to still be of value.

        I won’t comment again per your request and per my choice.

      • Jedi,

        This ended up being long so you may not read it, but I felt I wanted to share it – if not you perhaps for someone else.

        If I may say one more thing about what I believe. God is love. Everything he does serves love and he can’t separate himself from acting in love, because it is his essence, nor would he want to separate from it. When you have love, you only want it to expand – which is one reason we were created. Thus it is God’s will that all come into his love, and this desire will manifest, for he is God after all.

        God is a “consuming fire”, thus any fire referenced in the Bible, when understood in truth, is a reference to love; whether hellfire, lake of fire, or anything else. Any other interpretation is a misunderstanding. His love purifies us it changes us. Doesn’t mean it is easy. Our purification can be difficult and trying as all is revealed and purged by the understanding of his love taking over. Love is the only element that truly creates this transformation in us, and thus in the process of being refined by his love, he makes us of his likeness, as a created being; divine love. Fear creates fear. Love creates love. Love isn’t created out of fear. Fear isn’t of God, but the self-determined consciousness. If we don’t believe this love is able to accomplish this victory or think it is too weak, then we don’t yet understand it.

        Anything that is counter to divine love that is attributed to God is of humankind’s self-determined consciousness, which is mostly made up of judgment and fear; opposites of love and mercy. In your belief about the nature of God’s judgment, hellfire and destroying the wicked, you show you have a different image of God that is not only different but contradictory to mine or who is discussed on this blog. It’s the image I see in a lot of religions that sadly is used to justify a lot of hate, judgment and destruction. They speak of love, but it is highly conditional and not really a true eternal love; by very human, fleeting, and conditional. They don’t mean to, they just haven’t meant the true God yet. This is the image and projection that God does not like and what Jesus spoke against in reference to the Pharisees understanding of God .. because it keeps people from knowing the truth of Him. Jesus came to reflect the true image, which they rejected, one who is merciful, loving and powerful in that love. This counter image (anti-true love) creates a likeness totally contrary to his love; which desires all to know and move into it. When you know this love, you know this is true, for you too desire everyone, no matter who they are, to be consumed in this love. It is your belief, this other image of God, and I don’t want to argue your beliefs, but because you hold this image of God if affects how you interact and what you deem is acceptable in how you treat others and speak to them; which again I see in a myriad of religions. But this isn’t acceptable to me or what I believe to be true.

        As for destroying the wicked; wickedness comes down to error – anything contrary to divine love. We all have this as a part of us as we are governed by a self-determined consciousness; we make the judgement what is good or not – even what we think is of God or isn’t. But when we make the judgements it always produces some level of error, for we aren’t all knowing. Though in my understanding, this self-determined consciousness is a temporary simulated state used to teach. Jesus Christ revealed that one day we will possess the divine consciousness as he did and thus do only the Father’s will, which always serves and creates divine love, which is perfect righteousness. The “wicked” (self-determined consciousness) will be destroyed by his all consuming love (fire); then God will be all in all. Meaning his divine consciousness (the consciousness that governed Jesus Christ) that creates divine love in all thoughts, words and acts will one day govern all our souls and no longer our self-determined consciousness governed by our erroneous ways.

        I feel that you are reflective, and I feel if you desire to truly love God and love others that you’ll come into these understandings. For they are full of wisdom, truth, life, love … a life-giving spirit, not a destructive spirit. If we continue to seek in sincerity of heart to truly love the lies we once held about God won’t be able to stand.

      • I read it all… From my theology of hell fire, from my Denomination is that it’s real. I think the planet Venus (the whole planet is covered in lava and fire) is an example of what GOD will do to this planet, when He rains hell fire on those who are disobiedent and wicked.

        I will like to express that I do fully agree with practically everything I read… To be candid, I see the spiritual truth in what was conveyed, in this scripture “Buy from Me gold refined in the fire.” Revelations of Jesus Christ. I’m not going to pretend that I’m righteous or a know it all because in living in this earth for 23 years, I see my need for the LORD, I see my falleness. I Know I have more maturing to do in the Faith, I think a lot more. I haven’t even read all the Bible yet once. I hope my honesty… Helps in showing in where I am at spiritually.

        From my understanding and belief, I know hell fire… Is also real.
        I think the best I can do is give a short theological argument to support my belief:

        “The enemy that sowed them is the devil; the harvest is the end of the world; and the reapers are the angels. As therefore the tares are gathered and burned in the fire; so shall it be in the end of this world. The Son of man shall send forth his angels, and they shall gather out of his kingdom all things that offend, and them which do iniquity; And shall cast them into a furnace of fire: there shall be wailing and gnashing of teeth.” (Mat. 13:39-42)
        I believe hell to be an event that takes place at the very end of the world, when God eradicates sin from the entire universe once and for all.

        For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of
        God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord. (Rom. 6:23)

        The major differences between Seventh Day Adventist in the doctrine of hell fire, is that hell doesnt burn eternally, that it is the results of hell fire that is forever, which is eternal separtion from God “Do not fear those who kill the body but are unable to kill the soul; but rather fear Him who is able to destroy both soul and body in hell.”-Matthew 10:28

        I agree with what Ellen G White said in this quote:
        “It is the glory of God to be merciful, full of forbearance, kindness, goodness, and truth. But the justice shown in punishing the sinner is as verily the glory of the Lord as is the manifestation of His mercy.”—Review and Herald, Mar. 10, 1904.

        I believe God’s retributive justice is consistent with His character of love and mercy.

        … I was about to press send, then a piece of what I read in your message came to mind. About hell being to justify a lot of hate, judgement and destruction. I can’t speak for others.. Though even though I believe in a real hell fire like onto what happen to Sodom and Gorrmora… I can’t look pass Agape, I still have much to learn… But I can’t look pass uncentered love because that is the love of God and we all are Commanded to do. I can only speak for myself.

        Thank you for the insightful message… I really would like to respect your request now.

        May you shine forth as a sun in the Kingdom of the Father 🌈

      • Respect your request and my choice*
        Our created solar system (creationism evidence from observable data):
        I hope me sharing this link about evidence for why the solar system is created intelligently and not made by chance, is helpful to anyone some way.

      • Hmm I feel this quote from Ellen G White, helps me to see what was being said, when you asked me to stop saying condemning and judgmental things:

        Beginning of a New Life—This was to her the beginning of a new life, a life of purity and peace, devoted to the service of God. In the uplifting of this fallen soul, Jesus performed a greater miracle than in healing the most grievous physical disease; He cured the spiritual malady which is unto death everlasting. This penitent woman became one of His most steadfast followers. With self-sacrificing love and devotion she repaid His forgiving mercy. TSB 256.3
        In His act of pardoning this woman and encouraging her to live a better life, the character of Jesus shines forth in the beauty of perfect righteousness. While He does not palliate sin, nor lessen the sense of guilt, He seeks not to condemn, but to save. The world had for this erring woman only contempt and scorn, but Jesus speaks words of comfort and hope. The Sinless One pities the weakness of the sinner and reaches to her a helping hand. While the hypocritical Pharisees denounce, Jesus bids her, “Go, and sin no more.” TSB 257.1
        Christian Love Slow to Censure—It is not Christ’s follower that, with averted eyes, turns from the erring, leaving them unhindered to pursue their downward course. Those who are forward in accusing others, and zealous in bringing them to justice, are often in their own lives more guilty than they. Men hate the sinner, while they love the sin. Christ hates the sin, but loves the sinner. This will be the spirit of all who follow Him. Christian love is slow to censure, quick to discern penitence, ready to forgive, to encourage, to set the wanderer in the path of holiness, and to stay his feet therein.—The Desire of Ages, 461, 462. TSB 257.2

        Okay now I will stop messaging.. I just thought it good that I share that quote in connection to what you had message me. Goodbye

      • Only now*

        I had only wanted to share that quote on tough day and that book.

      • Composition of my text*

      • And I guess you think Sonny typed no wrong. Despite his wrong interpretation of plain text, his logical fallacies of separating informationfrom words and trying to play that off as some teaching towards me… Insulting my intelligence and manhood.
        The morning stars are the angels
        Not people, Truth and word are inseparable ( a natural law, the study of such law is known as semiotics)… Even the Bible attest to such a law in the scripture “sanctify them in the truth, thy word is truth”

        And the derogative allegation, of me being “self” righteous…. Holy are than thou

        Such a thing goes against my own conscious… And I know all that I did was because I wanted to make aware the facts. I admitted tomcoming across as wrong in other lights, but for some one to go as far as this… And start calling me things which strictly gp against my own conscious, and practice of the Faith… Is starting to do the work of the devil. Sonny had no idea how much temptation and you neither know how much temptations… You two brought upon me. Sonny slander, is like an cult out there, that slandered and trys to shame, guilt and put down people to try and have control over them. And of course my questions on the 4th commandment would never be answered? I gave evidence of why its still to be kept, and still will like to know what you think about that evidence and what you would need to know for certain it is to be kept for eternal.

      • Before I go for good, iwill share the book Daniel and the Revelations by Uriah Smith. He is a Seventh Day Adventist.

        I was looking at the video, Hell fire part 4… And I am amazed at how close you have gotten with GOD as your teacher.

        Truly I’m just sharing the light GOD gave to the Adventist movement, the light no other church was given first.

        666= VICARUS FILII DEI (THE OFFIAL TITLE for the pope) It adds up to 666 in roman numerals. Interestingly the different names for the roman Catholic church which all add up to 666.

        The three angels messages are the last warning cry before Christ comes, a type is John the Baptist ministry of repentance, this three angel messages is found in the Revelations of Jesus Christ.

        The woman that rides the Beast is the Papacy.

        The Beast with lamb like horns is the U.S.A.

        The false prophet is apostate Protestantism.

        The writings on the forehead of the woman can mean quite a few things, Babylon the great… Rome theology its structe is literally like ancient baylon.
        Dr . Alberto Rivera… An ex Jesuit priest a speaks more about that. The daughters are the churches that came out from the Vatican, communism like marxism and other ideas the Vatican made… Secret societies etc.

        The two witnesses represent the old and new testaments. During the dark ages that 1260 years… A day in Prophecy is a year.
        https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Day-year_principle

        The mark of the Beast is the counterfeit holy day. Forehead or hand believing it or doing it out of privlige get not believing.

        The news is covered with the push for the Sun-day law to be enforced again. (Sunday was the day then pagan worship the pagan sun, which is a symbol of lucifer).

        It doesnt matter if some one wants to put down this information subtly, by saying “this isnt whats important, people think they will be saved by knowing this, we need to focus on divine love.”

        I agree we need to gain a knowledge of God love and mature in it. But it is because of God love that I (me) study prophecy… Which is an importan part of the Bible, its the part which shows GOD divine power and it is meant for us to know what will be before it comes, so we aren’t deceived by the systems.

      • Truly though… I really hate when I see people type GOD with a common g the GOD of the Bible is the only true God… It’s not legalism its respect in writing when referring to GOD.

        Though I really like that you read the Bible for as long as you did. 🐕

        Hell fire is real.🔥

      • I don’t criticize that you see hell fire as an analogy… I know it is not right to not validate the existence of hell fire also. Because hell fire is real.

  9. To “know” is to “see” and to “see” is to understand and understanding leads to obedience…which leads to completeness…which is the very likeness of our Father. It seems that all such words as these , in their truest meaning, mean so much more than their natural layer. Knowing and seeing in their perfect meanings cannot be separated from a person’s truest character in the likeness in the love of our father, our God through the processing of our perfect example, our spiritual brother, our Lord, our anointed… our pattern and example, Christ. It is a most humbling and gracious, and precious thing to share these truths with those who understand and “see” the love of God without any of the negative condemnation for the other.

    This “seeing” is “being”…and blessed. To share these truths ….

  10. In addition to our corresponding comments with the other from above…which touch on our similar paths, understanding and vision…I would like to point out to your readers that over the last several months (during the time of your earlier articles being taken down) many accused you of speaking and writing from a place where your foundation was not founded in Christ but a concept of new age, universalism, or some other man made religious cultism. This was because (in my observation) you were speaking and not referencing the bible and the bible scriptures in backing your sentences. Since you had moved beyond the letter in spiritual understanding where becoming and being was taking the place of reading, quoting, and observation of the written law and literal word, you began speaking from the true word that was filling your soul, your heart, your very being. This is because how we are to progress, learn…to become.

    So, if you will permit me to confirm this, if your readers will go back and read your early postings you took down and then reposted what they will understand is that everything you said and say, shared, and acknowledged was based from your earlier studies of the scriptures… As you transitioned from speaking from the “letter” to speaking from the spirit (as we all will do in time) it seemed as though you were out there in a self determined, self absorbed, a self defining religion you were making up as you went…or from a new age cult like worship. (Not my words or beliefs at all as you remember.)When I came across your site I saw this honest remarkable ability to speak without the usual bible quoting, bible thumping, bible proving, “bible knowing”, know it all. I saw maturity and growth where the natural letter was not guiding your heart as you spoke but the guidance of spiritual nature God is forming in you. To me at the time it was also a confirmation that knowledge does morph into reality, substance and being…that when someone speaks, it can come from the deepness and connection to the dialogue of the spirit that only can come with the connection to, not the natural word, but the spiritual word. This word is not read from a page and expressed in the darkened letter, but in the illuminus light of the spirit that God gives us directly…that we may converse with Him…in the higher heaven we progress to in the spirit.

    So…although what you shared was from the “base” you removed it was not apparent to your readers where you were basing your dialogue from. Once you reposted what you removed it it was evident that everything you were saying (as though you were “winging it”) in fact was and is “based” from the studies of the very scriptures you were being accused of omitting from your sharing. I would like to insert here for the benefit of those who came in or have come in since this transitional phase of going from the bible “quoting” part of your beginning to the graduated and more substantive part of your journey, that when we do move beyond having our “foundation” in the scriptures, we take on another tongue, another language, and an unscripted speech. You took down your previous articles because you thought that it was or is no longer how you wished to express yourself as you were becoming into the new creature God is making you…understandably so.

    It was a good thing for the purpose of understanding you that you put these articles and shadings back up. If one would take the time and go back and carefully read the “letter” part of your beginning they would better understand your speech without the attached bible “direct” referencing to the bible for what you now see and believe to be. Seeing the new “tongue” without having read the old articles is what gave me pause and attention to your “new” speech for I connected immediately to what you were saying and where you were coming from…thus the beginning of our dialogue and friendship. As Racehel will confirm our terminology and choice of words to convey “the meaning” of what were expressing to the other was not always on par with the other, “as we differed” on terminology we did not differ on intent or purpose…for we both understood the higher calling of God’s creation was to a “way” and not adhering to one another’s rules of engagement…so to speak.

    So…having said this, without absolutely no “flattery” intended (because this would null and void the truthful substance being conveyed) we must all learn and come to the place of placing a substantive value on the words we choose to use in what we say to the other. Whether our words are being substantiated from our beginning and immature confused “bible backed” defensive nature of the letter, or the quiet, non debating new attitude of the spirit within, let us press toward the mark of the high calling in Christ Jesus where there is “no more sea” meaning we have come to firm ground where the unpredictable ragings of the sea (humanity) no longer controls our lips but the calm nature of the predictable spirit of a oneness that can only come from God…our Father.

    As you awaken now again from another “night experience” as you so humbly share, know that your “nights” are not spent alone for we all follow a similar “processing”. The darker the room that we exit from into the light brings about a brighter sometimes blinding recognition of where we have just entered. When our “eyes” adjust to where we are entering into we then and can only then have a true measure of the difference. There would be no darkness if it were not for the purpose of having something to contrast the goodness of God to…the light. So let us have faith in our nights that we know light awaits us in the “morning” and without these new moon experiences there would be no grateful and appreciation for the light that is to come. We do not “will” the light to come, it comes as planned, just as we sleep through the night is planned by an all wise and loving Father. May we have faith while in the darkness that we may appreciate the light when it comes into our heart and soul.

    We had light, and life before we started this dark journey of this, our soul experience. What we are about to experience by by having experienced the night is a much brighter existence than we had before, the difference is that once we have contrast to the light we now can have a new found appreciation for life we could not and cannot gain without this experiential darkness of this earth’s journey…or the “night experience”. When we come to the place where we believe, know and have faith that our Father knows exactly what He is doing…we rest in our sabbath for our work has ceased as we enter into His rest from His workmanship of our being built…which has taken many days…and…”nights.” It really is all about bringing us to what is a consummated good. Night only exist while we are in the “shadow” of our earth but as we move away from our earth and move into the higher realms of the love of the spirit toward the “son” there is no earth to have neither night..nor even a shadow…it is all light.

    The bible exudes words of knowledge but these words remain but words on a page until the spirit quickens the word within which…is the seed…which is Christ.

    It is my hope that what I lend to this conversation gives substance and validity to what you say and more importantly how you say it. There is comfort in confirmation when it is “His” truth we seek.

  11. Dear Rachel, I wrote some stories from my spiritual experience in my blog: http://flyingtotheheight.blogspot.com/. Guess it may be useful or inspiring for you.

  12. I think this is good music, while reading this post

  13. Truth in it’s pinnacle of meaning is God and His Son, Jesus Christ, and those who have been made like them. Truth is not words written on a page in the law. The law is written to the unrighteous as it, itself witness’. A person who follows the spirit is above the law…just as quoted. So one who puts his faith in the law which is written to the unrighteous, worships the letter and not the spiritual word. The “Word” is truth and truth is Christ. There is a written word and there is a spiritual word.

    Fear of not knowing the truth causes one to ridicule that which they don’t understand. Fear is what causes one to scoff when they cannot love another inspite of their differences.

    There is a natural sabbath and there is a spiritual sabbath, once we understand the spiritual we are not bound by the natural law of performing the ritual. The scriptures say one man esteemes one day above another and another man esteemes every day alike. One has a natural understanding of the bible about the sabbath and one has a spiritual understanding about the sabbath. One who is natural holds Saturday or Sunday as the sabbath while one who has a spiritual understanding esteemes everyday alike because the spiritual sabbath is when we have come to the end of our works and have entered into the true spiritual sabbath day (light of God) by faith where natural light has no influence.

    We are instructed to look at the natural to understand the spiritual for all the natural recorded bible is spirit in essence. The natural is created only to teach the spiritual for nothing in the natural was created that does not pertain to the real world, the spirit world. That which is natural including the rituals people call holy will cease to be but the true spiritual meaning of what the natural describes will remain. So it is better to learn what the spiritual sabbath is and keep it and forget about the temporary which will cease to be. We worship in spirit and truth, not in the ritual of the law which Jesus came and replace with a better way. If one wants to keep the natural sabbath because it was and is under the law, why be disobedient to the whole law and not keep all the other commandments which are also under the law. Paul explained if you keep one part of the law and not the other you are guilty of all. You cannot choose which you want to keep and which you don’t.

    Outward ritual is outward law, spiritual obedience is an adherence to the spirit of the truth within us, the true temple. We are to listen to the spiritual word which is Christ..within. All outward law is only a description of what one is to do inwardly, within the temple in which “we” in reality are.

    Truth awaits ones growth to it, while one who is bound by the law, speaks in terms of the letter without the spirits guidance. We must learn to listen…within, not in the outward temple or church but the one we are, Spiritually speaking.

  14. Sometimes I feel I do respond too openly here and I do measure my words carefully. (Most of the time ;-). ) It should “never” be our intention to tear down another even when we are attacked, even though we need to address things as “we” think we should for the good of all concerned in going forward in life. We choose our words to deal with what is happening, not what we want them to be, nor what we want the circumstances to be to suit our own ego. God can allow the circumstances to materialize and present themselves to us or to others to teach us that in all things our motivation “must only” be for the love of one another. It matters not whether one expresses love or hate toward us…we must learn to remain in and of the same mind, substance, and direction of the spirit.

    There is only one God and one spiritual way to Him even though we may be taken in different paths to get there. So when we are faced with criticisms and affronts for what we say and believe we have a choice to respond or not. Some of us do not want to respond ( myself included) because we do not want to offend in return. Do we respond or do we not? We sometimes respond more offensively “by not responding” to another because we fear we do not want to send the “wrong” message by doing so. We may not even fear responding to the one we think we should, but we fear those who may hear or read our comments and fear what they may read into it, therefore we offend in Christ when we let vanity rule our conversation.

    Although I feel and am a guest on this forum (blog ) do I alter my character, my speech, my understanding out of fear? No, we give what we have in the manner, degree and maturity we have been given. However since ours words either confirm or betray us, we must be who we are at “this” time in our lives and we should be respected “as we respect others” in our journey. Should we take all liberty in what we say in the presence of others? Yes and no. If we speak in the presence and unity of the spirit, we do, because there are some we know will understand and we know there will be others that do not. When Paul said he became all things to all people he was only explaining he spoke to people on their level of understanding. When we speak to one in the presence of many we most assuredly must understand we are not speaking to the one but to all. To address another who is disruptive in the presence of the many, we are no longer addressing the one anymore, the platform has been provided for everyone who has participated in the dialogue. One may only listen and not give an opinion, never the less, we all judge for ourselves what is right about the given situation and what is to come of it.

    We each have a calling and an order to be matured into, this is reality. God’s intent for each of us is to face and experience only those things which are beneficial to His predetermined goal for each of us, (having left the 99 and finding “us”). We must come to the place in our lives where we transcend into the will and mind of Christ as we are instructed and destined to do. We can no longer give in to what others may think for what is needed to be said. Although we have no desire whatsoever to offend but when offense comes we are to face it with the equipment we have been given to face it with. There have been more than one example on this forum where choices have been made in whether to deal with immature, undeveloped natures or not. It all depends on what the intent and purpose is in one doing so. We can have only one goal and one intent for all people and in all things for when we know another’s end, we deal with the end goal as we deal with the goal in the present. We love the goal of the person in spite of the present and how someone is in the present. We must remain focused on another’s welfare as we do our own…for in reality they are inseparable. This is the mind of Christ…and when it says “let this mind be in you which is also in Christ Jesus”, let it, do not deny Him coming into your life. People do not understand that when you are denying Christ you are not denying that He actually existed in the flesh as this is a outward expression and belief which has no valid and purpose to your soul. When we believe and accept Christ is our heart and souls, “AND WALK HIS WALK” this is in reality not denying Him. Do not deny Him coming into your very being and becoming as He is, if you do not allow this to happen in your life, you deny Him.

    We cannot except Christ into our lives if we never offend, for Christ’s very presence offended those of the established organized religion of His earthly days when He walked among the people. As it was no different for Christ disciples in that day, so neither will it be for the disciples of this day. Whether we fear our friends, children, parents or even our spouses in what we say to another in Christ, we must never the less speak one language and one language only, it cannot be a mixture of truth and vanity’s influence.

    There are voids in our maturing process and our Lord brings those into our lives which fill those voids. There may be fears in addressing what we see in ourselves or in another, however our intention can only be to erase all fear wherever we find it, for love is waiting just the other side.

    Although we live in the world we must learn to be and live separate from it’s influence for the world and it’s influence are created to teach the things of reality, the eternal.

    Now, do we…

    • Hi Sonny, Some good thoughts here … as usual 🙂

      Your statement: “It matters not whether one expresses love or hate toward us…we must learn to remain in and of the same mind, substance, and direction of the spirit.” — In similitude, I’ve been learning about being directed only by the love and wisdom of the Spirit of our Creator, versus others fluctuating emotions and my own. There is a lot involved in this that I’m sure we who journey toward this end find similarities in and differences. It requires emotional autonomy, being true to our “higher” self (our spirit-mind vs carnal mind, the part of us developed by the Spirit of Truth). It involves being connected to our true Source and Center and not our own point of reference. As I learn about this I see the perfection in it for ourselves and our relationships.

      Another comment you made; “we give what we have in the manner, degree and maturity we have been given.” This topic you are reflecting on is truly a great opportunity to learn and grow by. I certainly have a lot of “take aways” from this experience.

      Good communication takes a level of maturity, and certainly that is true with a more confrontational environment. And yes, it shouldn’t be about what others think (because then we are speaking from a place of “judgments” or negotiating judgments, which doesn’t usually produce a good result), as much as speaking from a spirit-mind, or our “higher” mind, so not a place of pride, defense, etc. When handling confrontations my goal is to handle them in a way that is beneficial for all; which honestly sometimes I’m not sure of at the moment :-). By nature these situations can easy arouse our lower mind and to speak from this place isn’t helpful, as you and I have both mentioned in the past. Like you said, each one of us best knows our heart and intention and it is for us to desire to always speak in a way that helps. To try to speak in a way that our words can be received versus rejected. Though even words of lovingkindness can be rejected by others for whatever reason.

      For me personally, handling confrontations has never been my strong suit by any means. But little by little I am learning. It is an area that highlights my personal weakness, so I seek to learn and grow through them as I face the different situations. Thus, it takes me longer to respond. I try to reflect on the situations, and the Spirit is faithful to teach me in ways that helps me to grow in this area.

  15. When we deal with confrontations we must know, the plan of God, have the mind of Christ (as well as can be) and understand the purpose of God for “all” people to be able to deal with it with an intent for the person you deal with to have a change. We must see down the road for that person just as we have children that know it all and want to tell you everything that is wrong with you and how smart they are. God warns us through the scriptures about sparing the rod and spoiling the child. The rod is the word and the child is any unruly one as we witness here sometimes…however we know we say what we do so that when they grow up (maybe years down the road) although they may spit scorn and revile you…however when they are “older” they look back and know what you did and said was out of love and you want them to be a better person. So we must have perception and do nothing to appease anger, offend or disparage another to validate some flaw within ourselves…such as a battle of egos. When we are “allowed” to “see” these things there is no way we can ever hate anyone about anything anymore because… we realize a fuller extent of God’s love that does not leave any behind. I am personally overwhelmed and have such a gratitude and appreciation for this understanding that I did not have at one time. Not to boast, but neither to deny His good grace that God has priviledged me to have ( in part) I want everyone to “see” the very love of God that He has for those who think they are nothing. If they only knew…so how can we convey this…? When we are attacked for sharing God’s true ways to others we must learn to deal with fundamentalist, legalism, naturalism and other immature outward aspects of who others think God is. If one thinks God is a monster and would physically burn one and torment them for millions of years for a moment of weakness (that He gave them) hasn’t a clue who Gos is. If you believe in this kind of God this is who your going to emulate. Eternal damnation was never taught until around the third and forth centuries when the masses were trying to be controlled by the few…as is today. People want to rely on others to tell them what God means and says not understanding that God is right there in their heart to teach and guide them. They deny and doubt God is in His temple…which we are.

    Every person we meet no matter what others may think of them or even what they may think of themselves, we know their end because we understand God is a God of love and this love will be the end result of all. Not all believe this and most live in confusion, turmoil and self doubt. I have been there and done that…but no more…I am not a boaster but I am not going to deny my Lord and savior who has came “into” my temple and taken UpmHis abode. I make Him as welcome as I possibly can. I do not strive with Him nor do I try to do it on my own. I have learned we do not need to go out and prove a thing or do this and that (works) foe His approval. I believe. I believe His promise for everyone and that includes me for I am created no different and with no different end as far as salvation goes. We must believe that every single thing that God created through His Son whether good or evil, was done so to bring all to a good and perfect end. We must not believe this as some fantasy but having risen and walked through the valley of the shadow of death, we have learned about His purpose.

    Once we see the love of God for all, we learn that we too must love as He loves, forgive as He forgives, desire as He desires. Can we be any different? Godliness is a goal, it is achieved by a desire to be obedient even though we are weak and may fail. It is with desire, we desire. I used to question why I see as I do and another has a hard time with it. I quit even questioning these things also because it is not a matter he who runs or wills but it is to them who God shows mercy. I can certainly say this about myself because I can honestly concur with Paul, I see little value in myself…but I have learned “He” will accomplish and complete His workmanship as He sees fit. If I falter and miss the high calling in Christ Jesus, I know that God will have blessed others to make up His number…so as long as His will is done…I must accept my fate is in His hands…and that He will do the right thing.

    So I can warn and rebuke such an immature person because I know in the end they will be completed as I will also be completed…and to harm another is not my desire nor is it my intention in the least. I have a grasp and understanding of the gospel and I keep my body under subjection to not allow myself to let my emotions rule my behavior to the point of ruin for another or myself. Do I perfectly do this at all times? I Wish, however I look forward and believe it will come to pass, not because I put any trust in my abilities at all, but I do in my Father. Love is more than avoiding offending because when we tell others of God’s will and love we are going to experience retaliation but that is part of the job. If we only approach those who are whole who are we helping, and if we approach those who need instructions and help, being blind and poor and naked in most cases, like children they are going to turn and rend us. So this is part of the sacrifice, we give up our comfortable view that we want others to have for us. We are not all expected to do the same job of another however we must know at least why we are saying and doing what we are doing.

    It is not about varying views, doctrine, and knowledge that encourages me to deal with another for another’s views are to be respected, it is only when they defend these beliefs and knowledge with the character of one less than blessed with the spirit of understanding. Sometimes we may challenge a peer we love when they err simply because we do not want them teaching something we know they will be sorry for later. When we teach a false way because of a false understanding we do God a disservice as well as ourselves. We will receive a harsher rebuke for doing so because we are allowing our immaturity to speak instead of our spirit. We may mean well and love our brethren but when we speak to them error we plant a way in them that will have to be uprooted later. God will have to bewilder our understanding for awhile to adjust our obedience to Him…for when we teach error we disappoint.

    However, this being said God is merciful and forgiving, in understanding that He Himself made us with a purpose in mind that we need to experience fault to understand the absence of it. All things have purpose and while we doubt ourselves we, deep down, know God has a purpose in all things we experience.

    • Hi Sonny, I’m glad you mentioned the point about we are all God’s and have the same end for God will be all in all; because he can be no other than God. Whatever our spiritual maturity at the moment may be; whether we are the unknowing child, the rebellious teenager, the distracted young adult, we belong to the Creator. So how we treat others is how we treat him. So to treat others with this in mind is wise. Again to treat others how we want to be treated is such a good guideline. And yes, I think back on times when someone out of a true care and concern told me something that I didn’t want to hear at the time, but I think back on it and now I see their genuine care. And what “image” we hold of God determines how we treat others and what we think is acceptable. Many religions create a fear and harsh image, which reveals their lack of truth. Where fear is, truth is absent. Where a love without hypocrisy is, truth is closer; for we are always learning. I also like your point about to speak the truth we’ve learned of love in love is honoring to all. Versus not sharing it. And in all things, I find discernment is needed. So as I mentioned, there is a lot to learn in our interactions with others and I feel if our desire is to truly love and treat others as we want to be treated, we will learn and that will constantly be refining how we interact.

    • Hi Sonny,

      One more thought I had … the verse you referenced about “sparing the rod and spoiling the child.” As you know this verse has been used to justify all kinds of abuse and mistreatment to others. As many other aspects of the Bible. Too commonly people use this verse to justify brow-beating someone, which isn’t its true intention. Because of that, I think it is helpful to link it to Psalm 23:4 “Yea, though I walk through the valley of the shadow of death, I will fear no evil: for thou art with me; thy rod and thy staff they comfort me.” … where rod provides comfort. In a human example it is hard to find this balance between correction and comfort. But true correction is actually to be a comfort to others, it’s a guiding hand of love and wisdom. Whenever the Spirit of Truth corrects me, it is always a comfort to me. I count on him to lead me in straight paths, to point out my error, to give course correction .. and they way he does it is with such a level of care and clear truth that it comforts me. I think this is the standard we should all reach toward. To do so is to align ourselves with the Spirit that we may in grace speak from the Spirit or by the Spirit. Again, it points to the importance of our communion with the Spirit of Truth, because how he handles us is a good teaching ground of how we are to be with others.

      • ThIs is a very good connecting verse, the rod of correction could just as easily say the “word” of correction. In everything we read and study in the scriptures there is a positive message when it is revealed to us in the spirit…in the higher meaning of the verse. The natural can turn many away from God as so many have rejected the “word” because of it’s seemingly cruel happenings. But….when revealed in the spirit they are good and those who lost their life in these conflicts were and are but on a journey to “their” heavenly calling.

        To be cast into the “lake of fire” for example conjures up people in writhing pain, being tormented for some mistake that is forgiven like all other mistakes…however when we see God describing himself as a “consuming fire” His ministers a “flame of fire” and all other instances where fire is seen as a “purifying” agent we take a closer look and understand as a lake has many waves, it can also be a lake of many flames or ministers. The lake of fire is a place people are subjected to when their name is “not” found in the book of life “meaning” they are not complete “yet” so must be subjected to more of God’s ministry, His many membered body of saints that have been completed as an individual flame of fire…or God’s purifying agent. So even the worst picture in the bible one would attribute to God being a tormenting entity is in fact a place exposing one to this “lake of fire” to “finally” cleans them.

        As the true meaning of the rod, and the fire we learn to see God as the benevolent loving Father He is when we see Him unveiled from behind the veil of flesh which is be holding to the letter of the law..we see Him revealed in the spirit.

  16. What we have often done in conversing and sharing with others is wanting to to project ourselves into the future past tense of things when the last enemy is defeated, which is death. We “desire” to speak as though we are in that realm where all earthly dominion has been put down, not only in the outward world we live in but in our earthly world of self. Any loving and caring disciple of Christ does not want another to suffer in any way, especially by anything we may have to say to them. When we understand and see God’s plan we also have to acknowledge what Ecclesiastes 3 means, when it says there is a time for all things. God says if He loves us He will chastise us to turn us to His ways, so we should expect this…and desire it with all desire.

    As we mature and understand God has a purpose and plan for each and everyone of us, we also realize in the interim there is much “corrective” discipline He must administer to us, to turn us to His ways, which means to see and understand all of His plan as He Himself created through His “firstborn” son. When the “other” sons are complete they will possess the same spirit and understanding as the firstborn son. This is why Christ made the statement to His followers that “greater works would they do than what He did” because more sons can do more work than one son. Revelations gives a good picture of what these “sons” (plural) will be doing…when…and how…and most importantly why.

    With understanding, knowledge and growth, one becomes mature to the point where regardless of what one must say to correct another, they do so with absolutely no guile. There is no childish banter…and truth will always win out…because it is unwaverable. Truth knows what it is doing and there is no harm in truth. There may be misunderstanding about the nature of the person who dispenses corrective words and many will not see the nature behind the words although I believe our fruit is pretty plain to all. At least it is to those with a true desire to follow after Christ and His will and His nature. So…we cannot worry about the insults when we speak what we know will give us direction to a clearer and more solid walk with our Father. It is hard for one to see the nature and intent of another unless they possess a discernment that only God can give to one. So…we should not waste much time in trying to convince another of what is correct…because we can’t. We can share the truth that resides within and if God opens another’s heart and eyes to what “is” they will “see” regardless if it comes from us or another. For what we have is of no private interpretation meaning we are not the author or originator of truth, we simply desire to follow it.

    In trying to decide what we should or shouldn’t say to another we often err out of fear. Fear of being misunderstood, fear of being rejected by the other or those who witness the conversation, however residing truth will guide us into all further truth. Christ knew His Father’s will for Himself and for all those He spoke to, Saint and sinner alike. Christ knew the destination of those He conversed with and also those He rebuked for unsavory behavior. Are we not to be able to do the same as asked of us in the scripture? Do we know and recognize the indwelling spirit that was poured into us to drive out our ites, our demons. Do we come to the place where the beam has been removed from our eyes so that we can see clearly to remove the mote in the eye (understanding) of another. And do we shrink back out of fear of being called arrogant and above others because of our confidence? Are we to remain as one weak to appease the weak?

    The blind have their blind to appease them and they have their religious sects to protect their like beliefs. Every level of “consciousness” has those who understand one another and as I have witnessed and the scripture do confirm darkness condemns the light and tries to destroy it. So as we are enlightened and grow toward the truth, we possess it, and we become a witness to those in darkness. Not all will see nor can we expect them to for even Christ was put to death for telling the gospel. Just as the religious Pharisees of Jesus’ time hated the light so we have religious sects today who will reject light until God brings one to their appointed time so they also will begin to see. Knowing that all will eventually see, we must speak what we know to be and if we err in any way, we look for God to correct us.

    It is no light thing to fall into the hands of the living God because through much tribulation will the individual be stripped of all that is unlike our Father. We must go through our inward “Armageddon” where all the darkness of this world has been done away with. Armageddon is not to be feared as an end of us or the world for Armageddon is the same as the “day” of the Lord where a new beginning starts, it is the kingdom age…that we are now witnessing the transition into. Armageddon in the natural is the downfall of this worlds evil dominion of governments, both ecclesiastical and governmental. We must remember to follow the rule of creation that everything in the natural was created to help understand the spiritual…and all natural things have their spiritual counter parts, the type and anti type. We are entering into the kingdom age and we marvel as we watch the downfall of this worlds governments, both great and small. Men’s hearts will fail them for fear of the coming doom but for those who have the mind of Christ will know that morning comes after the night. It all has a good ending? When one passes from this world regardless of how, they are transitioning into a higher realm.

    I know this is a weighty subject but in the time we are now entering (entered) we must address what is. There is much preparation taking place as we move from one dispensation into another and we must build our foundation for further learning on the only foundation we can build on and that is the principles of Christ. We will not learn these further truths if we let our traditional beliefs of damnation fog our sight of redemption and love for all..in our individual order. Love for “all” of creation is the key to understanding and growing in God. If you desire to cut another out of the kingdom, you will most likely come in after them. To love your brother as yourself includes all the love, forgiveness and compassion one expects for themselves from their Father in heaven, you cannot get there without desiring it for “all”. That’s just the way it is.

    In summarizing this writing, it is my understanding none of us are exempt the processing that God wills for each of us. We were born into vanity, not desiring it, but God subjected us to it to learn how to treat and be treated by our fellow brethren. (Male and female) as we have taken on the image of the earthly we will take on the image of the heavenly…so when He appears in us as explained it will happen….let us not deny Christ. To deny His coming “in us” and taking on His likeness is the true denying of Christ. So rather “let this mind be in us which is also in Christ Jesus” and all understanding will come that will bring “all” to maturity.

    Rachel, I understand what you mean by having difficulty dealing with another who is rude and not wanting to offend even though they demean you sometimes in a very ugly and harsh way. I see a solid foundation being built which all knowledge and conduct will emanate from. The love I see being formed in you and your carefulness not to offend is the true foundation in Christ. The other will come in time as this love is established for when one is established and no guile is intended and God sees this threshold of maturity, then when you speak and what you speak and how you speak will come from a singleness of desire for the consummation of love to be established in another. We will not take the offense of another as fact but blindness on their part…however we know they will also eventually see as we do.

    • Sonny, As we move toward the light, the truth and love, we are stripped of all that is counter and as this is good as you say it can be a very tough experience to go through for you face all your own destructive thoughts, ways, patterns. Those who have spoken harshly to me here, I don’t take it to myself, but I feel for them because it is a reflection of their own soul state. I only want to speak what will help those souls in some way. Not that I do this to the degree that I desire, but I see growth and that encourages me. In this desire to truly help there is a lot to learn about what love truly means, for there is no place for the lower mind of pride and defensiveness .. and it includes sharing the truth of the love you’ve learned. Whether they receive it or not is the work of the Spirit within them, but you pray they do. When someone doesn’t seem to be receiving anything but only lashing back than I believe it is time to move on.

      • … Before I completely go. I want to share p, That the main reason why I kept returning to this blog, was because I knew I needed to be arong some one, who knew and live more of Agape… I know the theology I showed to be true… But I knew that you exsibithed more of that agape, than my self. And I came back many times because of that.

      • P is a typo*

      • To be around*

      • “Let me tell you in word easy to understand…you need the love of Christ in your life. You have a knowledge of Ellen White but none of your own. You belong to the whore which sits among many waters (peoples) which is a religious system of man. It is not of God. You have a form of Godliness but do not know the power of God nor do you understand His plan for all people. The religious harlot which you love so much has your mind bent on sending others to hell while you take your angry self to heaven. God help you and the whore you serve. “- Sonny message from unconditional love

        These men who speak about love sure do seem to lash back with straw men fallacies. Do you see how Sonny truly is like? When i rebuke its because its true… I call harlots, harlots… But Jesuit Sonny seems to like to call people who followed God ” whore”

        The person whom should be off your blog is Sonny… It is him who is anonymous I feel.

    • Of course you can shorten your messages if you want too. You chose not to edited them to a shorter degree. Not that anything is wrong with that… I just find it as lying In saying you cant.

  17. I agree. Paul is a good example of withstanding an onslaught of rebuke form those who sought to steal away saints from His Godly instruction. Yet when he saw that it was futile, he moved on…and turned from the others carnal debate…meaning he shook the dust (carnality) from his feet and moved on. He did not let it stay with him.

    • Sonny I forgive you, for your cult like slander towards me🐇

      I forgive you for trying to manipulate my belife… With your rethoric. I forgive you for sopreading false theology… I forgive you Sonny. You say you are over 60 years of age.. I respect your gray hairs, all I ask is that you respect my short hairs. I know what I pointed out in your comments are true… Its up to you if you will accept correction on that. I never slandered you as a human being once… But you did to me first. I’ll admit I didn’t like your long posts, especially because when I read it, thier were theological errors within the first few paragraphs.

      Isn’t it written better are the wounds of a friend than the kisses of an enemy? It is written rebuke a wise man for he will love you… But dont rebuke a wicked man less you incur insult. I accept the instruction I received here to a degree… But when I point out the The theological wrongs, it seems I’m met with cult like slander. They are some books out thier that attack SDA theology, I have one which I began to read… And I notice they misquote and give little to no evidence why it is wrong.

      What astranges me the most, is when you attack the 4th commandment and call it legalism. You two could say I have no love, you could call me “self” righteous… Where is your evidence for such a claim? Did I not labor in showing the truth of that interpretation? Did I not accept instruction in certain light? It’s when you two start to go demeaning is when I stopped listening to you because now I know you are just trying to psychologically manipulate me… Specifically you Sonny. Just like any cult.

    • “Now I urge you, brethren, keep your eye on those who cause dissensions and hindrances contrary to the teaching which you learned, and turn away from them. 18For such men are slaves, not of our Lord Christ but of their own appetites; and by their smooth and flattering speech they deceive the hearts of the unsuspecting”- Romans 16
      What you teach about morning stars, about the existence of man, about truth and word, and even behavior… Is contrary. Are you baffled when Jesus called the Pharisees serpents or When Paul said they were going to die or when Paul said he was going to blind a man in Jesus name? Are you baffle there? But you are baffle when I rebuke like they did… Foolish talk and tempting talk slandering like any cult you are

    • Each flame is a tempTion. That is all you have done Sonny. All you have done is give temptations. I decline to give a hear to your sayings when I see your comments going against my moral dignity. I reject your allegation of my character, I ll be judge by GOD, and I know your slander of me being G self righteous, is unfounded and disgusting and filty slander coming from your mind.

    • Sonny… Much sin you are doing towards GOD… You need the LORD Jesus Christ before you burn in hell fire. Repent of your sins Sonny for the Kingdom of God is near.

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