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Stirring The Deep

A Cornucopia of Expressions

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Humankind;

A Cornucopia of Expressions

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Divine love/divine truth removes the labels, which we attach to others and ourselves, from our thoughts, thus our perceptions. All that remains is the identifier that we are the children of the Most High in each one’s own unique appearance and expression.

Labels

Labels attach certain attributes to another person or group of people. There are a multitude of labels that humankind has created over time to classify and identify human beings. Our minds like to generalize and categorize aspects of our lives, especially people. So, this labeling is a deeply embedded aspect of our thought processes.

At first glance, labels seems handy and efficient because a label can seemingly tell is a lot about someone … but there in lies the problem and the lies. Labels construe images of others based on varying incomplete and/or erroneous set of attributes. Thus, seeing someone through a label often creates inaccurate assumptions about who they are, which leads to treating them differently than we otherwise would. It’s very easy for a label to become a tool of judging another instead of seeing their unique individuality. There are similarities between people, of course, but seeing similarities and seeing in labels is very different. Similarities are perceptions that come from understanding and limited to the similarity. Labels can and often carry a whole host of attributes that may or may not be applicable to a certain individual. Labels are removed not in a word itself, as the politically correct movement as attempted to do in certain areas, but from our very thoughts, for our thoughts are the genesis to what is manifested in our reality. And this work of reframing how we see others is the result of divine love/truth expanding within us.

In labels, we see in images (the unreal), and in part. In divine love/truth, we see in realness and in fullness, for we are looking for and at the fullness of the soul of an individual, and not the thin and often erroneous image created by a label. Any one label can reflect different attributes for different people, thus they can be and often are very misleading to the true nature of any one person. But divine love/truth flushes out those perceptions that create faulty assumptions, separation, and judgments. In our mind’s need to classify, divine love/truth reframes our perceptions, so that our only “label” is someone as a child of our heavenly Father in his/her own uniqueness. It’s the only “label” we need. This leaves lots of exploration about whom that person truly is. Once the labels as we know them are removed from our perceptions (and there are many), we appreciate the distinctiveness and splendor of others that creates a harmonious connection.

Divine love/truth is a unifying energy. It creates harmony, not separation. Labels put someone in one group and us in another because we’re different, thus they create separation, not unity, in our thoughts, thus our words and actions. As we start to be transformed by divine love/truth, all that creates separation in our thoughts is removed and replaced with what creates harmony and peace, and this concept of labels is one of many.

Unique Expressions of Our Similarities

We are far more alike than different as human beings, and the differences are only in the expression of our similarities. For example, we all have the same emotions, which vary on a continuum of expression depending upon how our surroundings taught us how to express them. We are all unique, and we are all similar at the same time.

Not only are we are all similar, but also we are a part of each other. What I do effects you and it effects me, thus what I do to you I do to me, and what I do to me I do to you. For example, if I honor myself, then I will honor for you, for if I contain true honor in my soul, then it expresses itself all the time to all people. Likewise, if I honor you, then I also honor myself. Thus, when we “see” others, we are seeing varied expressions of ourselves. And here is a deeper truth; we see others through our present understanding or filters so that what we see in others reflects more of us than of them. This is why two people can see one person very differently. How we see someone is more about us than them.

Labels of Relative Truth

Differences created from labels are simply a perspective that we hold in our mind because of the label. Thus, labels are the progenitor of relative truths. A label of a group or type of person holds certain characteristics to us, which may and often does vary from someone else, thus it’s a relative truth. Further, if we see someone and attach a label to him or her thus all the attributes that label reflects to us, we’ve made our own relative truth about that person. It isn’t based in what is real, but what is unreal. So now we are acting and responding in what is unreal. Whenever we act on the unreal as real, we create a myriad of problems that causes division and not harmony.

The absolute/divine truth is that we are all our heavenly Father’s children and a unique expression of all that we have experienced. The relative truth comes from the labels that we each believe we are and others are, and thus live by. If we define ourselves by a label and the corresponding attributes, then we become the label. This dynamic is known as a self-fulfilling prophecy.

Creators of Self-fulfilling Prophecy

Labels create self-fulfilling prophecies, especially when impressed upon a young mind. When we label a child in a certain way, we are laying a framework upon their mind that shapes their thoughts about who they are and who they are not, what they can do and what they can not, how they are seen by others and how they are not. They take on a likeness of the labels we give them. Is that their true nature? Yes and no. They are fulfilling what they believe themselves to be, but that can change when they no longer let that label identify them. It’s only a relative truth, which is always changeable. A label is only true if an individual soul allows that particular imprint to define his nature. But it isn’t necessary who they truly are, but an identity that they have taken on. We believe it so we act and live upon it. But that doesn’t make it an absolute truth. A great gift to give another is to see them through divine love/truth, regardless of how they see themselves.

Divine love/truth removes labels from our lives and perspectives they create, and reframes us and others in the label of a child of God, which we all are, thus creating harmony and unity.  We no longer see others through labels, which is seeing them through images, but we see them as unique individuals radiating their own individuality.

This world is drowning in labels, but divine love/truth totally reframes how we see others and creates an awareness of a cornucopia of variety that is beautiful among the children of the Most High.

Author: Rachel

My passion is cultivating a deep relationship with God and helping others to do the same. I LOVE sharing with others insights that God has taught me and hearing what God has taught them... thus my blog, Stirring the Deep. My focus is on a relationship, not a religion. Life is in the relationship. I believe in a balance and unity of body, mind and spirit. I feel it's important to nurture all three for they all affect each other. I try to live in the present, where the Holy Spirit is. And I try to do all with the motive of love. I've come to believe life is a journey and not a destination. It isn't about perfection, is it about growth.

29 thoughts on “A Cornucopia of Expressions

  1. Wonderfully well written Rachel! Love it!
    Lions and Lambs

  2. Rachel says;

    ” How we see someone is more about us than them.” This is so true and if I may encourage and reinforce this thought……

    This one small statement speaks volumes about our journey and why we’re here, labeling and being labeled as “good and evil”. It is so true, the carnal mind “labels” everyone and everything, and as it says in Galatians man labels people into categories by causing divisions, parties, and factions. These flaws led to the developing splits within “the way” and caused some to go off and start these resulting sects thus establishing the first “religions” spun out of “the way” Christ and His disciples taught. Another word for labeling is judging, which gives cause and effect for these divisions, parties and factions to emerge.

    Labeling is a very good way to speak on judging. In the religious world there are tens of thousands of religious orders, self made by the thinking of being apart from God’s tree of life. The tree of life is one view whereas the tree of good and evil expresses how man himself sees things, “labeling” things as good and evil, righteous or unrighteous.

    With an inward singular view one can get by “only” eating from the tree of life’s one true perspective, we do not see God’s plan as good and evil as one only gets from obtaining their diet from the tree of good and evil.

    “As a man thinks in his heart so is he.” This scripture speaks of how we perceive ourselves and how we perceive ourselves depends on which tree we obtain our diet from.

    If our eye were singular as God has asked us to progress “back” to we would not label, we would see the end of all things in a positive light and the regeneration of all things back to God from which they came, thereby not judging and labeling others from our carnal minded point of view. If we did not label, there would not be any religions individually separately labeling themselves by the dividing nature of the carnal mind of man. (The serpent in the garden convincing Eve, our soul, to label and divide things into categories of good and evil.) God had already warned Adam not to have this view and this view came by Eve’s disobedience from eating (contemplating, reasoning) from the tree of duplicity (good and evil).

    Since this fall man has labeled everything and judging everything according to his own perception. If God had not planned man’s fall and allowed him to do so, we would still be of one singular perspective of mind , seeing things as God intended before the fall of man and after man is regenerated through the ages of time, just as God our Father has planned. If mankind would take the false label from himself as well as not labeling others we would not have the divisions, factions, and parties as pointed out in Galatians. Many skim over these scriptures without grasping their intended meanings. They fit so well with Rachel’s observation and subject of this article.

    If we looked at others as another child of God just as we see ourselves we would not see others by labeling them into different categories as from being different from ourselves. We may see others as being of a different religion, culture or country but if we stripped away all these imposing labels from whatever the reason or source, from a tree of life perspective, we will see “all” as being born into this world, going through a regenerative process, and ultimately being reconciled back to God and back to a singular way of understanding. “As in Adam all die so as in Christ all will be made alive, but every man in his own order.” All reconciled, all in their own order. Not some but all. We label (judge) people according to what we perceive as their faults and sins but if we see correctly we see this sinful state as something we are born with, not willingly, but given to us (for a time) to understand how we are to treat others. Just because someone says I am of this religion or of that religion doesn’t make it so, it’s just a figment of their imagination perhaps from being convinced by some proselyting well meaning but misguided person or they were just born and raised in the environment they now find themselves in.

    We can call ourselves and others what ever comes to our mind but it does not remove the truth of God in the matter and what He says we are. He says we are all His children, prodigal or not, saint or sinner, and whether we reject Him or not (for a time) and whatever label we may put on ourselves or on anyone else. However we learn not to label, by labeling and having been labeled. This unfair labeling will go on until we, by God’s calling us to the regenerative process, start to gradually regain consciousness as wakening from a dream and God through Christ starts the regenerative process of clearing our mind of the curse bestowed on us at birth (again not willingly). Blindness is a temporary problem God lowered mankind into for a season. This blindness caused all kinds of problems for man as he went about doing as he him”self” reasoned to do, which all started in the allegory of the garden by Eve’s disobedience.

    If we label correctly we label all as God’s children whether saint or sinner, obedient or prodigal. With a single (tree of life), God given perspective, we see only Christ and His way. Christ (meaning an anointing) is a “way” for us to emulate just as much as Christ is a person. The disciples “labeled” Christ’s teachings simply “the way”. It will be a wonderful new world when at the end of this age we are all labeled “as in one likeness”, just as our Father said in the beginning, “Let us make man in our image”, and when we have been subjected to the opposite of this love in this live’s journey we will then have a new found appreciation for this same Love. Suffering in this life for a relative short amount of time will so amplify our love for our Creator as well as all others who have been subjected to the same process. God’s plan is like a well written play with allotted times for each of us to come forth doing our part and allotted times to each event. Nothing is amiss or out of control in God’s plan.

    Sonny

    • Hi Sonny, your comments add so much depth and apply this truth to specific applications… thank you for taking the time to share them.

      • Rachel, do your
        Mom and Dad still
        pray for you, to come back
        to Church, and come back
        to the Lord?
        How do they understand
        your new Gospel?
        Are their hearts still
        broken?

      • And thank you for your genuine kindness, I feel free to express these thoughts only because I feel a similarity in thought and spirit.

  3. Sonny, if you wrote
    a book what would
    you, call it?
    I think you see the
    problem here./
    For there to be a problem
    to be solved, there has
    to be a name for it.
    If we’re solving the problem
    of egocentricity, then that’s
    the label.
    Is it labels, or what the label’s
    imply that is the problem?

    • I would probably call it “The Way”

      For it would be a revealing of the way of Christ which would involve giving direction to putting on Christ and the putting away of the ego, which is just another name for the man of sin, satan, the dragon, the false church, etc. There are two spirits within man, only one will be triumphant and it is not the carnal nature of man. Paul said, “He must increase and I must decrease”, meaning the Christ within must come to full fruition and the carnal mind within must cease to be, it must be put to death spiritually speaking. The increasing light of Christ will dissipate the darkness of our carnal mind until we will stand fully matured in His likeness. Is this not what God declared he would do in the beginning, in Genesis, when He said “Let us make man in our image?”

      • In the beginning God gave
        man ‘free will’.

        Jesus said I came ‘not to’
        bring peace, but a sword,
        to set a man at variance
        with his father, and a woman
        at variance, with her sister.

        I see Satan is the one who
        wants all under one banner,
        which is 666.
        Satan is the one wanting you
        under one label.

        I think God wants us defining.
        He just doesn’t want us~
        participating in the judgement
        that belongs to Him.
        There is a judgment that belongs
        to us, where we have the right
        to say, no, based on this, label,
        based on this reason,
        and based on this, thought.
        However labels do not have to
        be permanent.
        We are not all equals, from
        that viewpoint.
        I think we should see people
        ~as they are,
        but treat them as they ‘could
        be’, where possible,~ or when
        possible.

        But that’s still the dividing line
        of Christ.
        I don’t think we’re required to
        see everyone the ‘same’.
        Every one is not in Christ.
        You have to be His follower.

        Everyone’s an equal?
        Equal to what? You won’t know
        because you don’t have it yet.

        No, I don’t think we’re going
        back to the Garden of Eden,
        ~as far as purity.
        Not till we, get to Heaven.

    • You ask, ” Is it labels, or what the label’s
      imply that is the problem”?

      It depends on who is doing the labeling and what the who is implying. A good example I give in my statement above in citing from Galatians that we should not cause divisions, factions and parties in our communion with others. We should always think of being as one in all of our doings. “Let us all be at peace with another as much as it it possible.” The only time we should lack in peace is when “the other” in their immature, self righteousness, attack.

      We should give much thought to this portion of scripture in Galatians because what it is saying we should not be the one who takes on a spirit of divisiveness, and cause factions within the church which results in a different party of believers. Thus religion is born. Now that a “religious party” is born through this divisive carnal spirit, it labels (judges) the true church “of oneness” evil, calling good evil and their evil self righteous selves good. These who have committed this “party” of sin, go on to split again, and again until you have many ” “daughters” spoken of in Revelation.

      These doing the labeling or separating, being now of many religious parties, divisions, and factions and having now left their spiritual oneness in Christ, imply in their labeling that they are better and different than others and judge in harshness, looking for fault in others to raise themselves up which we know is nothing more than the inability to see the seed of Christ in all. If we humans understood, and it is true, that the “seed” of Christ is deep within all, waiting for the right amount of moisture (spirit) and correct temperature (heat) to bring the seed from it’s dormancy to it beginning to now grow, we would want to nourish that seed with the correct wording, love and compassion. Examine ourselves, what is our motive for opening our mouth? Is is to bring forth a false pretense in the eyes of another for self adulation and a desire to be great or do we simply desire fellowship in the unassuming spirit of Christ and therefore not labeling another as being good or evil?

      Our labeling of others define who we are and where we are along our journey in life, for do we label in love or do we label in being factious, divisive and of a party spirit. Let us choose in seeing all of God’s children just as Jacob looked down through the corridors of time and saw the face of God in the face of his brother Esau. He saw the end of his former enemy being complete in God. We also must pass through the night of overcoming as did Jacob and awake to a new day and a way of thinking, seeing all in our Father’s will, in their order, in the order of their redemption. It is then a wonderful, new day when we can see the very love of God in every face, however immature, being temporarily blind in factions, divisions, and parties. These too will be released from their prison of self importance and see the importance of seeing God’s plan as being all inclusive.

      It’s always the goat that trumps on the stump, it is the sheep who follow His voice which lead to greener understandings.

      So it is more of asking for what purpose or in what spirit do we label.
      We should see Christ in all if it is only in seeing the seed lying dormant until God gives it moisture and His heat at His appointed time. Let us therefore not prematurely judge another man’s servant, thus in actuality prematurely condemning and labeling ourselves unworthy to carry His mantel.

      Thanks Rachel for opening up these thoughts on labeling. When love and respect is the center of our dialogue (instead of self) much can
      be accomplished.

      Sonny

      • The factions, divisions and parties, that Paul is referring to are ‘within the church’, and at the Church house.
        When Paul spoke against factions and parties, that was in order to preserve, the one true ‘party’, and division, ~which is the Church of Jesus.
        The factions you are referring to, are factions built up, so that no one~ can speak the truth to you.
        That is the type of faction Paul was saying, would cause harm, a faction that breaks away from the
        truth, and tears down the unity of the truth.
        You are trying to make this statement by Paul to be spoken in reference to ‘all mankind’. Paul’s statements are not in reference to ‘all mankind’. They are in reference to “The Church”~only. Paul is saying, get in the Church, and let the factioners, get out.
        These statements by Paul, reinforce the Church as a seperate entity. Your either~ in or out.

  4. Free will:

    God says He sets the borders and boundaries for all of mankind and He sets the times and seasons of events and the start and beginning of each age. Free will is a yes and a no. Animals within a fenced pasture have free will until they get to the border, the fence. Their free will ends at the boundary. They are free to roam within the perimeters we set for them. They, as we can go where we please until, as says the scripture, no further. So free will as anything else is a relative perception. Man can run away as the prodigal son, he can choose to eat less than the best as he had in his fathers house, and he can spend all his inheritance on vanity all by his free will. The prodigal realized his free will to choose the lower path in life was not such a good idea after all. He turned from “his” own free will (as his father allowed) and came back to his father and was now willing to accept whatever “his fathers will” was for him. His father knew his son needed to find out for himself what self was all about and so he let him go. (This allegory is about all of us and our turning away from our spiritual Father, but it is only for a determined amount of time that is sufficient to turn us back to the father.) Not a complete free will. God has a regenerative plan of Christ redeeming us all back to Himself. How can one redeem something unless they once possessed this thing. You had to have once owned something and sold or lost it in order for you to redeem that thing. We were all in Christ before the fall, it was the first Adam who carried us down into this the fallen state and it was the second Adam (Christ) who redeemed us through His resurrection. So between the fall and resurrection we have “free will” but we only have this “disobedient” free will until we come to our senses and freely choose to become obedient by choice for love by choice is better than obeying from a perspective of fearing our creator.

    Therefore:

    Our Father which is in heaven knows exactly how much free will to give us, it is just free enough that we are not eternally doomed as a result of making our free will mistakes. Once our free will has carried us through the muck and the mire (as the prodigal) we turn back to our Father and we take on a new awareness of who our true Father is. This is because we start to see things as a result of the compassion, forgiveness and loving kindness shown us during our prodigal attitude by the Father we didn’t recognize we had in our disobedience in our past.

    Now we are free to make a decision to love our Father because he first loved us and we now understand His plan for us. We now see we want to please the Father for such a wonderful life we did not see we had all along when we were blind to His true self. We start to serve and obey Him because we do not want to repeat our prodigal, self centered, free will behavior.

    Again, we have disobedient free will until we wake from our stupor and choose to follow in obedience, a better form of free will. God knows just how long to make the rope of free will.

    Heaven is where your heart is, just as hell is also where your heart is.”, Choose you this day whom you will serve.” We can live in peace or we can live in hell, it’s all relative to where we stand. We can look for love or fear in all things. Let us choose wisely and respectfully in all that we say and do.

    Sonny

  5. I have no idea where
    you came to the believe
    that.
    Christ never taught that.
    That’s not the Spirit of
    Jesus. Not His teaching.
    That sounds like Buddism.

    • Anon, As long as one believes heaven is off out there somewhere (outside of us or in some exterior building), they will never be able to see Christ in His true temple. Know you not that you are the temple of God? When we see and understand the true temple, we see and understand it is in spiritual Mount Zion, the new Jerusalem, heaven in type. Heaven, pure and simple, is God’s likeness.

      If we see God housed in a building on a certain day at a certain time I
      would suggest dig a little deeper, within.

      • Neither~ spiritual Mount Zion,~ nor Heaven, are metaphores.
        These are literal, spiritual entities of which
        the term~ New Jerusalem, references “both”, and is inclusive
        of both.

    • Buddism, Islam, Hinduism, and the many other thousands of labels are just that, divisions. People attach the name Christian church to thousands of labels, whether they call themselves, Charismatic, Penecostal, or label themselves of belonging to some other sect, t is all man made religion.

      I wear no label, if one chooses to categorize my views or the views of any other as being from this faction or that faction (religious order) they have a party spirit which is not of God, if it is not of God…………….

      Peace

      • The factions, divisions and parties, that Paul is referring to are ‘within the church’, and at the Church house.
        When Paul spoke against factions and parties, that was in order to preserve, the one true ‘party’, and division, ~which is the Church of Jesus.
        The factions you are referring to, are factions built up, so that no one~ can speak the truth to you.
        That is the type of faction Paul was saying, would cause harm, a faction that breaks away from the
        truth, and tears down the unity of the truth.
        You are trying to make this statement by Paul to be spoken in reference to ‘all mankind’. Paul’s statements are not in reference to ‘all mankind’. They are in reference to “The Church”~only. Paul is saying, get in the Church, and let the factioners, get out.
        These statements by Paul, reinforce the Church as a seperate entity. Your either~ in or out.

      • Could I please know, your position on the 4th commandment?

  6. Anon:

    Paul was addressing the church as you say and so am I. Many split away from the true church and many went and started their own “church” and railed against Paul as being the apostate and not them. Many said they must become circumcised in the flesh which Paul said they didn’t need to but said circumcision was of the heart, the doing away with the fleshy understanding and having a heart replaced with spiritual wisdom. Paul spent much time warning against those who left and started their own followings, “drawing men after themselves”. It was these splits and false pastors, teachers, etc that became the seed of the apostate church. Paul was talking to all who’s ears were being opened. I couldn’t agree with you more when you say Paul reinforced the church as a separate entity. This is my point.

    Your either live it in the true church (within yourself) or you fake it in the apostate outward ritual of seeing a building as a church. It was so under the law but we are no longer under law. God even had the natural temple destroyed in A.D.70 as prophesied. Christ said we would worship in the true church in which we are and He would pour His spirit into us, the true temple. We have been set free of the natural law and we are now under the law of grace. I see no disparity in your statement and what I said. The only statement that you make that differs is that I apply this to all mankind. Guilty as charged. When Christ, Paul or any other apostle or disciple taught or preached, they spoke to all who would listen and while they had no power to open any ears, they spoke and God chose whose ears to open and who’s ears (mind and understanding) would remain shut.

    You say:
    These statements by Paul, reinforce the Church as a seperate entity. Your either~ in or out.

    And I say your correct in this assessment as long as we understand what we’re in or out of. I believe we’re in agreement as it appears you are making a statement distinguishing the true church from the apostate church. The spiritual Mount Zion from the natural.

    I’ll close in saying a healthy respectful dialogue is a wonderful thing and a thing to be cherished and honored. Two people can discuss the word, one sees the word as the written bible and one sees the true Word as Christ and His likeness. In having experienced both in and out of the “church” I have come to know and understand that darkness always “criticizes” and condemns the light but the light never returns condemnation and hostility. We know people by their fruits of display. If we have the right attitude without great knowledge and understanding we surpass and fulfill all knowledge. If we have a storehouse of bible knowledge and are void of charity we are as brass cymbals, we make loud noises but are void of the truth.

    My sharing and my message is not to convert one from what they believe for I understand I can only share from the vantage point God has opened my mind to, and whether I am still in error or not this is for God to decide and correct, for I know that it is God who is able to open my mind or the mind of another. Again, if I err or am in error, or I see another in error, it does not bother me. This is because I know that I as well as all others are God’s workmanship and he will accomplish His plan in us in His timing and order. I will with patience wait on my Lord to accomplish and correct my understanding as I become more and more obedient to that will that I have been led know.

    Therefore:

    How can I criticize or try to find fault in another or in their views. We were born in iniquity and shaped in sin, we were born into vanity, not willingly, but were subjected to hope. The hope of what?? The hope of being delivered from our vanity. So as we take on the mind of Christ in hoping to be delivered from our carnal nature. Do we have the same hope for another? I can only have the view that God has allowed me to have. I know that if I pursue all that God puts before me, if I err, God will correct and have mercy on me. I would hope that His mercy is sufficient until my complete change comes. Now if I expect this from Him as I should, I therefore would be a hypocrite not to wish this same patience and long-suffering for others. Sin means to “miss the mark”. In ancient times in archery practice they would yell “sin” when the arrow missed it’s intended mark. When we miss our mark, we sin, but there is another arrow to shoot until we are well practiced.

    When we see our brother err or sin, we only condemn in self righteousness but in righteousness we do not reveal the sin but pray they may, as we, be delivered from their vanity as we pray for the removal of ours.

    My intent in sharing with any who will listen is to increase the kingdom as I know it to be. I know that our Father is lenient to those who are lenient and increases His likeness in those who are disciplined and obedient to that they know. “Forgive our trespasses as we forgive those who trespass against us.”
    When we are immature in the Lord we see this forgiveness as an event but when we have been matured to a more enlightened state of mind we see it and live it as an ongoing nature. It is not something we do or not do, it becomes us.

    I for one am careful not to claim a certain stature, God will decide our maturity level as he works His will within us. There is little, I have learned, that I can do to repay our Father for what he has done for us. If we have appreciation and gratitude for His gift what else can we do? We do not work for a gift but we can show our gratitude to our Father for it, and what better way is there to show it than in how we treat others. We are condemned from our birth, let us spend our time in building one another up for there is plenty ready to tear down.

    • So your saying that all people
      who meet in buildings, to teach,
      talk about, and share their faith
      and mutual support in Jesus
      Christ, are all apostate, and they
      are not true believers, because
      they meet in a building, this
      means they worship a building?

      All these people can’t tell the
      difference, between the Holy
      Spirit, and a building?
      Whereas people that are Buddist,
      or Hindu, or whatever, they are
      followers of Jesus, even though,
      they may have never heard His,
      Name. God is going to correct
      these people, as to who He is,
      without a preacher, just by telepathy?!!!
      But if a preacher preaches Jesus
      to them,~ so they will know the truth,
      then that is sectarianism because,
      it brings them, another division?
      They (false religions) know the Spirit of
      Christ, whereas those that have
      read the Bible, and meet at Church,
      don’t.? These ‘labeled one’s’,
      who have read Jesus’ words,
      but have not reached perfection,
      ~are man made religions,~
      because they have a name on
      the door, and can’t disdinguish
      between~ a building and the Holy
      Spirit?
      They can’t tell the difference, between
      these, simply because they
      have a core of beliefs, ~based on
      God’s word, ~ they can’t be for real,
      and are seen by God, as disfunctional,
      and imperfect ?
      So the Holy Spirit doesn’t work among
      them, because they don’t have it
      perfect?

      • Anon:

        Buildings, like circumcision, do not make you better or worse, they are both rituals if one treats them as such. I go to “buildings”, but I do not see them as anything spiritual as ones that do as under the old law.

        I am saying forget about the building, it is just somewhere to meet. We should not judge another whether they meet under a tree, in a barn or in a building labeled as something special.

        Again, the church is where God is allowed to dwell. If we allow Him to dwell in the true church which we are, He dwells in the true church. When one gets up in and on “any day” and realizes by revelation where the church is, they are in it already. Now if you want to dress the true church up, drive it to a building and worship with others, by all means do so. this is a good thing! I have done this, do this and will continue to do this. but I know the outward building is just brick, wood and mortar, noting else. It is the people who meet in the physical building which are the church.

        Anon, I am speaking to those who see beyond the letter, beyond the ritual, beyond the pomp and pride of only seeing God as someone who would “only” meet you in a building. I am saying wherever you or anyone else wants to go, go, but if one thinks by showing up at a particular, physical place on a certain day at a certain time is spiritual they haven’t a clue what or where the true church of Christ is. Now whether they see this or not is Between them and God. I have written enough in these few short articles to explain what I mean and it is plain spoken.

        If a person worships any physical structure whether a statue building, as many in this world do, and make it their idol, they are idol worshippers.

        Anon it’s all in ones mind what a building is. It is a place of shelter to me, simply that, I place no value on the building but the ones in the building.

        Whatever label one wants to attribute to a physical building or whatever one wants to call a physical building simply establishes where one’s faith is, in the ritual or in their own being. I live in a building, that houses my true temple. That is how I personally look at any building. Do I admire the great architecture in ornate cathedrals around the world, yes I do, but they have no “spiritual meaning” to me whatsoever.

        You say:

        All these people can’t tell the
        difference, between the Holy
        Spirit, and a building?

        And I say, some do and some don’t, this is plain enough just by reading the word. Paul spoke of three heaven’s and whether a certain one was caught up to a third heaven, he couldn’t tell. So it is with us, we read, listen and speak and to another they sometimes cannot tell or understand from where another speaks.

        Telepathy? – the supposed communication of thoughts or ideas by means other than the known senses.

        i do not use the term as you as in referring to certain religions around the world.

        The scripture teaches and verifies spirit talks to spirit. This communication is not by the known senses. There is a saying in the scripture that says “the foolishness of preaching……….” Jesus preached, as well as the apostles, and many others. Was this preaching foolishness? When it was said of the resurrection of Christ, that after this event, there would be no need of being taught for the spirit would teach us. This can only pertain to one who is led by the spirit and not by one led by the carnal senses. I am saying if one is led by he spirit they communicate by the spirit and they worship in the spiritual church (within), and one who is led by the church of the natural senses only see God in outward symbols. Ones who are led by the religious senses and not by the spirit of truth (Christ) cannot distinguish between the natural and the spiritual, the true temple and the building made with hands.

        It meant it was for all who God drew to Himself at any given time. If God doesn’t do the drawing and opens one’s heart and mind to a spiritual way who are we to think we can open the mind by much speaking or preaching. We may can say the words but it is god who opens the mind.

        The foolishness of preaching is that one should be able to hear the voice of God speaking within their temple, their very being without having to be told, this is in essence what Christ was saying. Man, without God, falls into a foolish category, not a spiritual one. It is the natural man that needs preaching to, not the spiritual man. Now if we start out in the foolish category and we learn little by little in obedience to the ways ofChrist, we at some point become spiritual enough where we begin to learn to listen to the spirit within, in the true temple. We thus leave the category of the fool and learn to listen, spirit to spirit.

        The category of being in the foolishness of preaching is for the fool, not for the “preacher”. One can speak, teach or preach the truth, being one in the spirit with God, to another which can be a fool but the understanding of each of them categorizes them of fool and preacher.The scripture is simply saying learn to listen to God directly and leave the realm of the foolish, always having to be told what to do and how they should treat another.

        We have all been born into the imperfect man realm for the purpose of being taught and redeemed through this life’s journey back to the spirit world. This is redemption. This is a long gradual process for mankind. I do believe as witnessed by the scripture that, “As in Adam all died, so as in Christ (this same all) all will be made alive, BUT every man in his own order. Now by believing this as I do, I do not leave one single person out of God’s regenerative process. You cannot be regenerated, reconciled or “re” anything unless you existed before in a condition where you are reconciled to.

        Having made this clear, I say irregardless of how others see themselves, their personal views of who they are does not define who they truthfully are as only the sovereign God can declare what or where a person is on their personal journey. If I concur with this thought in which I do, who am I to interfere with God’s plan for another. It is one thing to share the word of God and ones view of their own experience with others, it is quiet another to criticize and condemn another for their belief. This is a fine line we must not cross.

        So if one idol worships, we do not condemn them, the act of idol worshiping itself condemns them, for they are condemned already. Therefore by one being condemned already in their beliefs, why would I heap more condemnation on this lost (in mind) soul? If anything it would be my intention to speak a word to them in the hope that God may give them understanding. If one does not understand what I say if what I say is correct, it is God who opens or keeps the mind closed. I should not judge the person either way. Where one is on their journey we should accept them as they are until their God and my God chooses otherwise.

        Anon, I see what you are saying and I understand you from your perspective. I do see, however, you do not understand completely what I am saying and I have no problem with this. There really is little difference in what you are saying and what I am saying. The perspective is somewhat different as you are inferring I am saying things that I have not said and that I see things as I do not. If I have further explained to you my thoughts where I am coming from fine, if not that is fine also, I accept you as I accept myself, along this journeys road, faults and all. I pray that you, myself and all others will come to the place where we see and encourage others to seek a more enlightened way and leave the condemnation of another to the evil one. Let us not be partners with that evil one by joining in with an evil attitude.

        When we come to the place where we walk in unison with God in spirt, it is the spirit (light) which will dissipates the darkness. When we walk into a dark room at night we do not strive and rail at and with the darkness, the darkness simply dissipates when the light is turned on.
        Let us look for the light switch (in the spirit) and seek to have it turned on in our soul (the dark room) and when we are filled with this light the darkness of misunderstanding will leave us with little thought.

        It’s all in perspective.

        Sonny

      • I’m completely in agreement with everything you said, here. That put a lot of clarity on what you are saying.
        Very well stated. I have a better understanding of your thoughts here.
        I’m not in agreement with you on~ as in Adam all die, but in Christ all live. At least the way I understand you
        are saying it. Figuratively speaking that would be true. If you are saying ” I choose to view them that way “.
        If you mean literally, they ‘will be’, in a definite literal sense, that for me would be Biblical error, and erroneous. I don’t follow ~” God is Saving Everyone regardless”, in a literal sense, if that is how you are saying it. That changes the whole thought pattern of God’s Word. It will twist out of joint, all your beliefs,
        in Christ. I am not of the opinion, of being shy, and reticent, and coy in presenting God’s Word. That is false humility. I am respectful of people’s feelings, and understand your statements on civility. But, I don’t
        push it, to the, extreme. I do not believe that God’s sovereignty stretches to the point that he violates self will, again that is against God’s Word. The reason I’m making these statements is to point out, that hurting
        someone’s feelings or not, in following God’s Spirit, is not the “highest” concern, it’s one concern, but not the highest, and it is not an indication of your Spiritual stature, or maturity, to insist on~ ‘live and let live’~ that makes me~ holy, and polite. There is a real Heaven and a real Hell. ~ to point ~ Jesus, said, Go into all the World and preach the Gospel to every creature, teaching them to observe all I have commanded you, he that believeth shall be saved, and he that believeth not, shall be damned. And yes the damned is Hell. This is not an emotional issue, but an everlasting spiritual reality.
        So, we are being polite to people, but in teaching everything that He commanded, that is, Spiritual authority.
        In following the Holy Spirit, that is your authority. It is not spiritual pride, when you open your mouth to speak. Or when you speak God’s Word. When that makes someone uncomfortable, that is a lack of faith.
        Without faith it is impossible to please God. People’s emotions can heal. But the spoken Word is~ to the Spirit.
        Respectfully Yours.

  7. Anon, I went back and read again my comments and your response to it. If you would “carefully” do the same I believe you would see I said things different from what you thought I said. 🙂

  8. I Corinthians 20 through 26 copied and pasted directly from scripture.
    The following verses are a good foundation to build on in explaining “As in Adam all die, etc……..”

    But now hath Christ been raised from the dead, the firstfruits of them that are asleep. For since by man came death, by man came also the resurrection of the dead. For as in Adam all die, so also in Christ shall all be made alive. But each in his own order:Christ the firstfruits; then they that are Christ’s, at his coming. Then cometh the end, when he shall deliver up the kingdom to God, even the Father; when he shall have abolished all rule and all authority and power. For he must reign, till he hath put all his enemies under his feet. The last enemy that shall be abolished is death.

    Christ was the first to be raised from the dead in the body of the new creation man. The above verse that reads:

    “For as in Adam all die, so also in Christ shall all be made alive. but each in his own order: Christ the first fruits; then they that are Christ’s, at his coming.”

    I am not going to try to give a full accounting and study of this leading verse from my studies but I will present it as only food for thought.

    For as in Adam all die,……In taking just this portion of the verse first we take a look at how “all” died in Adam. In studying this accounting in Genesis, none can find where any man from Adam to the present has escaped dying under the curse. All mankind died in Adam. All from Adam to the present has been turned to destruction. Now if we can agree that this part is true, then the part after “so also” must bear the same truth as the first part. Some translations read “so as”. When you find so also or so as in the middle of a sentence the second part must prove the point of the first.

    So all died in Adam, this is conclusive.

    “so also” or “so as” in Christ shall all be made alive.”

    It is saying that since” all” died in Adam the same “all” has to be made alive in Christ for it says they “shall”.

    Now the first meaning of “all” before “so also” has to have the same meaning as the second “all” after “so also”.

    So, when read as written it is saying that since all died in Adam (every man woman and child ever born died in Adam. ) that these same people that died “shall” be made alive. No amount of twisting can say anything other than what it says. A person would have to admit to being completely illiterate to give this one verse any other meaning than what it states as fact, not as an opinion, not as a mystery or allegory. It is a straight out factual sentence.

    It then says ” but each in his own order. This is statement is a very important key to building the truth of this matter. Often times in the new testament the apostles are speaking in terms of orders and folds. What is promised to one is not promised to another. There are different rewards for different orders or callings. the “first fruit” is a different calling from the rest of the harvest. Christ is the firstborn among many brethren (other first fruits). God also has a government, not all will be in the 144k, not all will be first. Some will produce less fruit than others etc, etc.

    Space does not allow to write the hundreds and thousands of examples of other scriptures that build on the above verses, but build they do. Every man will come forth in their own order some to 30 fold, some to 60 and some to a 100 fold, but every man will find their own calling in Christ as it says above “in their order”.

    The majority of christian religions teach a literal burning hell. This was never even taught in the early church. When the first King James version first came out it had over 35,000 errors and mistakes, this is why there have been so many “revised” translations. many translators worked on this translation and a lot of politics and compromise went into it’s translation. The original hebrew and greek transcripts are the inspired documents. Man has attempted to translate much according to tradition but it has fallen short of it’s true meaning.

    1 Corinthians 3:14 states

    If any man’s work shall abide which he built thereon, he shall receive a reward. If any man’s work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss:but he himself shall be saved; yet so as through fire.

    The scriptures before this speak of a man’s character being like gold, silver, costly stones, wood hay and stubble and man will be tested to see what manner of man he is and his reward.

    In the study of refining we know that fire produces purity in gold and silver, thus in seeing god as a consuming fire when a man is tested of what character he just as Job was we find out. Gold typifies the spirit of God and silver His redemptive qualities. Wood, hay and stubble in scripture represent mans unstable and vein ways. if you put word, hay and stubble in a melting pot along with the gold or silver, build a fire under it, the heat from the fire will burn away the wood hay and stubble (carnality) but will purify the gold or silver. When our gold (spirit within) is subjected to fire if we stand firm the fire will purify us by burning away the dross (wood, hay and stubble) and purifying the precious metal (spirit).

    The above scripture is speaking of the testing of man and his reward as a result of this testing. If a man does not measure up the a first fruit calling as in the 144k, he will still receive a reward and suffer loss, as he himself will be saved, “Yet so as through fire.” In other words man is processed and may fail many times and may suffer loss of “calling” but he will not suffer loss of being redeemed. He will be rewarded according to His testing.

    People have been taught by tradition and by not understanding the spiritual meanings of the scripture hidden in type, and allegories that men are either going to a hell or to a heaven after they die.

    The “lake of fire” is erroneously believed to be a place of torment when in actuality it is a place of redemption. god says he will “Make His ministers a flame of fire.” One minister is one flame just as you have one wave in a lake. Thousands of flames (ministers) creates a pretty good size lake of fire. Those people who have been tested and suffered loss as described in the above verse will suffer loss in their reward but they “SHALL” be saved “YET SO AS BY FIRE”. Do we not see it is talking about a fire that will save and not harm, a fire that will take away the wood, hay and stubble?

    They will be subjected to a lake of fire to be cleansed of their remaining wood, hay and stubble. God’s ministers will minister the fire, as they are the lake of fire.

    You see when you see the spiritual interpretation of the seemingly fearful things in scripture, these same scriptures praise God, and explain His method of redemption. Man is kept in darkness and fear until he is loving and caring enough to see the praise of god in all things. there is none lost in God’s plan. It is not of works, it is of God’s merciful plan. it says where sin abounds, God’s mercy abounds the more. There is no sin that will ever keep you from finding the love of God in your calling, and in your order. You may be weak, and suffer loss, but you will be saved,yet so as by fire.

    god is a consuming fire and in all of scripture it’s says nothing of burning up your spirit but it makes many references to burning out of you your sin which is your wood, hay and stubble. So let us pray for all, leaving the 99 and finding the one so that all may be made whole.

    When God brings one to a place of understanding of what the scriptures mean in the spiritual that one will thank God for every one they meet because they will see the end of all, redeemed. Let us pray that the veil will be lifted from the blind so that they will no longer keep others under the curse of this same blindness.

    Now the The King James version: it say the same. as the ASV.

    For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive. But every man in his own order:Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ’s at his coming

    We all will be made alive in Christ at His coming, His coming will be in our very being because we are the true temple in which He will come in.

    Let every man be persuaded in his own mind.

    Sonny

    • For as in Adam all die,
      ~ so also~ “{in Christ}”.

      “{In Christ}” Sonny, refers to
      ~ having ‘accepted Him as Savior’.

      This is what places you ~{In Him}.

      This is explicit throughout Paul’s teachings.

      1 John 2:23 23

      ~No one who denies the Son
      has the Father.
      ~Whoever confesses the Son
      has the Father also.

      This is the only Way, anyone
      may be ~~(In Him}.

      • No one accepted Christ in the fall of Adam where all died. So it is in being called in Christ. There was not a condition of having accepted Christ in the first part of the statement so it cannot pertain to the second part for the second has to meet the rule of the first part. Our acceptance is not by choice, it is by being called in God’s timing. The scripture says we cannot even come to Christ unless the Father draws up to repentance, so it is not up to us when and how we’ll be processed. We will leave traditional teaching as we obey and grow.

      • 1Corinthiansr 15:2
        By which also ye are ~Saved,
        if~ ye keep in memory (tradition)
        what I preached unto you, (tradition)
        unless ye have ~
        Believed in vain. (left tradition)

        This is the first part of Paul’s
        paragraph above where he states
        the element of Salvation,~
        then leading into Verse~
        (15:22 )~ of which we were
        reading.

  9. This could not poslbisy have been more helpful!

    • Ariel, this life is a precious gift, and a gift is given, you do not work for a gift, however we prove ourselves and our reward is according to our obedience to that in which God has revealed to us individually. When we see the gift without the symbols, types, and shadows, we see God as He is. What is even more wonderful, we see all as He is….in time.

      When we learn to look at life with a love for all the veil falls from our eyes and we see an awe inspiring God, not one to be feared, but one to embraced in all that comes our way for there is no power but that which comes from God. We become to see Him as a loving Father and not someone bent on punishment but correction. In the Hebrew the word punishment only means to correct.

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