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Healing Perspectives

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Healing Perspectives

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Focus on YOUR development, and love others. 

NOT neglect to love, and focus on others’ development.

I’m learning to embrace the first line and thus let go of the second, as I understand the depth and healing power that the first contains.

When I use to not agree with someone’s sense of morality, lifestyle choices, responses to others, or whatever area I may see life differently, out of fear I would feel some sort of obligation to let them know (spoken or not) to help fix, change, or influence them according to what I learned to be right and true. Unfortunately, this concern with others’ progress in their personal development caused me to respond and act in ways that came across as disapproving, critical, prying, and unloving. Often I made the situation worse. It hurt, I couldn’t understand why?

Our heavenly Father taught me a different perspective and focus that is far superior. Instead of being concerned with others’ development and trying to alter it through “correction” of my disapproval, I now know it isn’t my “disapproval” that is needed (spoken, and especially unspoken for people sense our “spirit” above all else in a situation), but my love. And not just my natural love, but a love beyond myself yet flowing through myself, divine love, for it holds a wisdom natural love doesn’t contain. Thus, I needed to focus on my development of this love and simply love them. It isn’t just how we respond to others but the spirit behind it; be it fear or love, that makes the difference.

Ironically, the people causing the most pain and harm are the ones who need the love the most. But usually those are the ones who receive it the least. So by unintentionally “withholding” our love by focusing on the wrong thing, we are creating more harm than good. When people are harming themselves and/or others, whatever guidance they need outwardly is far more effective when it comes from a spirit of love, for it’s love that is lacking and is causing the “issues/problems” in the first place.

For example, when teenagers are “unruly”, we try to correct them in doing what is right. When we neglect to truly love them in the process, they feel judged, which feels like rejection, therefore, they feel more pain on top of the pain they already felt. Only love heals, thus all we do is to be done in and with love, which comes from a place of love, not fear.

In this, I see the power of acting from a place of understanding, compassion, and healing when addressing another instead of “disapproving” and “correcting,” which to the recipient can feel like judgment and rejection. We all need more compassion given and received in our lives, for this care speaks love to our souls, the very love we need to become better, and heal as we need to.

We have never walked in another shoes; it is impossible because it would require living their exact lives from their perspective to fully understand where they are coming from and how they are struggling. But how grateful I now am for all the brushes with various “wayward ways” I’ve had throughout my life, because it gives me a greater ability to give true compassion. But even having gone through similar situations, I’ve never faced exactly what someone else has, thus there is no room for my judgments. It simply doesn’t help. Therefore to criticize another’s response or choice isn’t helpful, but only desiring to help them from a compassionate sincere heart.

Love heals. We all have had much hurt and pain in our lives. So in our desire “to help”, it’s love that is needed for every situation. It isn’t “letting someone get away with something” … they suffer the consequences enough. It’s creating an environment of love and help, allowing someone the room to grow and learn, which is what they need.

Regardless of any situation, love, care, and sincerity for another’s wellbeing are what’s helpful and beneficial to all. Our heavenly Father counsels me on how to see and think in alignment to this love. Then his love through grace helps me me to walk in it. Divine love guides us in ways far beyond what we are able to do on our own for it is a much higher superior love as it knows the depths of the souls of all mankind. Thus he shapes our love in a way beyond anything we could accomplish on our own because he knows what we do not. He can “see” what we cannot.

This intimate instruction is essential for our soul development and to grow in his “kingdom”, where divine love reigns and governs all. It’s the real. Only God’s love is truly real, for it is everlasting. All else will fade away. Thus, as we come into harmony with this love in our soul we embrace what is truly real and everlasting.

 Be to others as I am to you.

Above is another instruction of our heavenly Father to me. How does he come to me? Gentle, tender, patient, and always ready to help. He is never condemning, guilt producing, or rejecting, even in the subtleties that we have in such intimacy. There is no fear in his expression of love to me. His love is always waiting for me to embrace it, never forcing itself upon me. This is how I am to be with others. Never forcing my will or what I think they should do, but realize they have their journey and learning to do, and my role is to speak words of life that energize them on this journey. As our heavenly Father is with me, so I’m to be patient as they learn, and willing to help as they are willing to be helped. This helps me to grow as well. And this is what I would desire from them. Be and do to others as you desire them to be and do to you. 

As my mind molds to divine love’s ways, I’m seeing the wondrous results and effects of these realizations as they produce outward growth for others and me. I have much to learn and desire our perfect Father to search my depths and fill them with his divine love. It’s truly being made into a new creation, a better version, of me. My essence stays the same, but the expression of that essence from my thoughts outward is different. It’s a welcomed change that continues to grow.

Focus on love, and let it become your desire and delight by seeing the very real beauty it creates .. this is what I keep hearing.

I am finding all the answers to all I’m truly seeking and desiring in this instruction, is it really that simple? We’ve made life and knowing of our heavenly Father complicated by living in a lack of love. We connect to Him through his love by becoming in harmony with it, and his ways are always governed by love. Life gets much simpler, easier, and freeing when we start becoming a part of his love for it brings all into harmony and peace.

So I’m learning to keep my focus on my development in the love of divinity and all it entails, and as for others to simply love them with this love I’m learning of and gaining for my own by God’s grace. And I find it brings about what I was really hoping for in the first place.

May we all get close to this love and live in and by it and leave it at that.

Author: Rachel

My passion is cultivating a deep relationship with God and helping others to do the same. I LOVE sharing with others insights that God has taught me and hearing what God has taught them... thus my blog, Stirring the Deep. My focus is on a relationship, not a religion. Life is in the relationship. I believe in a balance and unity of body, mind and spirit. I feel it's important to nurture all three for they all affect each other. I try to live in the present, where the Holy Spirit is. And I try to do all with the motive of love. I've come to believe life is a journey and not a destination. It isn't about perfection, is it about growth.

35 thoughts on “Healing Perspectives

  1. Beloved Rachel…The words you describe belay the exquisite beauty of the Virgin Bride of Christ; These words melt away all iniquity, all my weapons fall to the ground in the ether of such utter loveliness. And steadied by wisdom’s sure footing there is a dignity, and a majesty evenly matched to a good and wonderful creator; I have often heard discourse among the angelic that these things are but normal in the heaven of the Most High. This consider helps me to remain standing, composed. In this present age of utter wickedness, it seems almost awkward to behold such elegance. But you are certainly of the remnant the scriptures have always spoken of. We war torn, glory in the hope of what awaits us when the Lord appears in His fullness. As the furnace within us burns away all that is impure, it also warms and purifies us into purity. So we allow the chastening judgements of God too belay the inherent mercy of a loving and holy Father, making us into sons and daughters of His very own;

    Lions and Lambs

  2. So then, is resignation an end in itself, or where does it lead~ in time of confrontation with truth? There can still be an accusation~ against Love,
    and against Truth. Sometimes love must fight accusation or resignation.
    Is this true, or do you find this to be Truth? At some point in time, you could enter a state of denial, which would break the spirit of Faith. This spirit serves the hearer, but denegrates the speaker, at least as far as Faith is concerned; but on a long term basis, not necessesarily, on the short term.
    Can anyone say that I am wrong in this observation? Not in line with Truth?

  3. Rachel, in commenting
    on your video
    you mentioned “negative things”
    which are passing away,
    as I saw that, in the totality of your
    comments on a big
    screen, including all your points,
    I saw that as being out of sync with
    truth, all points included in your
    matrix for one reason, (and the rest
    I could follow) but the idea,~ you, are
    following in saying~ “it’s passing away”,
    if you could bear with me,~~
    ~that’s a conceptual statement,
    based on time~.
    So, it may be “passing away” in
    your experience, but to say~
    “it’s passing away~ in general”
    you can’t have a perceptual basis
    for stating that as truth, because
    the statement is based~ on time.
    In other words, it’s no more passed
    away, than it was yesterday.
    The folding up of that will have
    to occur in one moment, because
    God’s kingdom is based on seed.
    I don’t see personally, evil seed
    in the world, passing away.
    I would have to understand how
    you came by that as a concept.

    So teacher, or no teacher,
    let experience do the teaching.
    Let me know if I’m wrong.

    • Would you mind telling me another way? I’m not sure what you are asking?

      • Sorry for taking so long to get back.
        Let me watch the video again, right now, and hopefully I can be more specific, with the main subject. I may have used the wrong word, or could be more specific. Hold tight please.

    • All that we see with the natural eye and what we understand with the natural mind “is” passing away. We came into this life innocent of what was to be and as our spirit was put into this “formed” body (the same as in Adam.) we entered into a journey of traveling back to the Father from which we came. We were spirit, are spirit and will remain spirit when this journey is complete. All the vanity we are subjected to in this life will pass away because as the scripture records we are but on a regenerative process. The instruments of discipline when they have accomplished all that they were designed to do will cease to be, they will “pass away”. The book of Job is my and your life in allegory, in type and in shadow. Shadows are temporary things that are but an outline of the true. Now the scripture simply states that God is Love. This tells me that all the scriptures from Genesis to Revelation when revealed in true light without the shadow we see God in all things. This may seem oversimplified but when we start to see God as He Is we no longer see good and evil as Eve but we see God before the fall and we concur with God in Genesis chapter one that His plan “Is” good. In Isaiah 45:7 it speaks of God creating “good and evil.” In Genesis it called “all” the plan of God, “good”. Evil was created for good and when we see the value we concur that all things are of God. If someone does you an evil and you show patience, restraint, and compassion, then evil has served it’s purpose, it has tested you and if you fail, you remain in training until you become in His likeness and image (character) and you take on His Love in all of it’s many manifestations that come to us “gradually” as the carnal nature passes away which was given to us for a time until we learn to see others as we see ourselves. God created something opposite (the carnal mind) Himself so that we could accept His gift of Life with an appreciation and gratitude that we could not have otherwise developed without having being exposed to this valley of death, which is the carnal nature of man. All the book whether the written word ,or the true Word which is Christ Himself is in all of it’s (His) truest colors is Life amplified through the journey. I must decrease, as He must increase (in me) speaks volumes of the journey described. It truly is about learning to love others and seeing in them not only yourself but Christ. Jacob saw in Esau’s face the face of God. This happened after Jacob’s name (nature) was changed to Israel. Jacob’s old nature passed away as he gained the new name (nature). We must also learn to see God in all and in all things. This is Love.

      Sonny

      • My problem, with what you
        are saying is, “You~ are doing
        the grading”. And You cannot
        determine how well you are doing. ~
        Only Jesus can~ grade you.
        That’s what I’m saying to Rachel.
        (exposed). You cannot grade yourself.
        The principles~ are at play even when
        you “don’t understand” or are
        “stupid”. Blind. So someone is grading
        you not based on performance, alone.
        The Bible says, we have All, already failed.
        What we need to focus on is not
        ~”being Spirit possessed”
        ~for perfection, ~ but being ~ “Spirit Led”.
        This is where Life is, but~ You~
        are not producing it.
        That’s where I disagree with Rachel.
        There is a Big Difference, between
        trying to be~ Spirit possessed,~
        ~Works~ and being ~Spirit Led.
        In being Spirit Led you don’t
        always have to “understand”
        as Rachel is trying to do,
        which will lead to death,
        because it’s not Faith. Faith only
        has to believe,
        so combine that with understanding,
        and you won’t
        ware yourself out, seeking for perfection.
        Then you can love other people freely
        without, grading yourself on it.

        I loved you enough to tell you.
        Could you perceive it?
        Or, did you have to ~
        “Get it from God?”

  4. Actually, I think I went overboard or heard ‘over dramatically’ a statement you made. Scratch my comments.
    Let me ask a different question. ~ Do you believe God has a Specific Will For ‘Your’ Life?
    You make God sound like a bundle of images, or truths or even Love, you know, Love Love, but no real
    person behind it. (Please don’t over imagine my criticism). But It’s as if God is an electric field of Love to you, that bounces out of principles that you “perceive”. But I don’t think your always going to be able to
    understand His judgments that specifically. There is a Judgement side of God as well. When He speaks,
    your not always going to be able to Understand,~ the reason why. And He sometimes “speaks negatively”.
    He’s not just a big bundle of fluffy Love. Love has a stern side. Remember Jonah. Even Jesus said,
    the only Sign I’ll give this generation is the Sign of Jonah. So, I’m saying, as far as God’s will for Your Life,
    don’t please, carry the idea, that God can’t take your life, and completely turn it around, or that you have to
    Understand This. He is a sovereign being. It’s not like, I’ve got Love, and now I can ride this wave.
    Have you ever considered this? (Hope you enjoy the question) (Sorry if I prolonged your day)
    (Thanks for your kindness)

    • Hi, No problem. 🙂 As you know, when you know the true nature of love it is never frivolous, but perfect and never fails. For me, the heavenly Father has in a sense, though much deeper and complex that these words can describe, a soul, personality, individuality. Far more than an energy force/source for his very love makes him so. His love is all that is real for us and the rest is born out of the imaginations of mankind, though again his love contains all his attributes. As his creation, we have “laws” that determine the functionality of his creation, which we operate by. These in themselves “judge” us, but it isn’t, as I’ve learned, the judgmental nature that man has that has been placed upon him. He only and always is desiring to help, teach and grow us in the perfect way and every “act” toward us is for these reasons, for it is his love for us that makes him this way toward us. People have what they have to learn what they need to learn … but certainly as we walk in his truth and ways our lives, as well as our continuing learning, become smoother and more peaceful, because of what his truth creates in us. I’ve been learning, to a greater extent, about his divine love that I didn’t “see” in his nature or experience as I do now. It’s a word/concept that people have grown somewhat “cold” about … but when we start to experience his love, it changes every perception we hold, especially him.

      • Well in Genesis. We see the beginning of His book, that the judgement was placed on man, because of disobedience, so you were calling Him, Heavenly parent, so that all lines up with how a parent would act,
        and the child is not placing it on the parent, the parent is placing it on the child. So, that even lines up and is not contradictory to who ‘we’ are, as a parent. So, I’m not following that (understanding that) as making or following any form of order. (as a child, I would be confused)

        If you experience my Love, that shouldn’t change your perception of me, because that would come through
        my Words. When I speak ‘to you’, not through a principle. Principle simply speaks of a consequence, good or bad, (as we understand it) but that wouldn’t change My Love. I can Love you, and you can experience that, but I would still have a Lot more to say~ to you. So, what we experience as Love, can be conceptual as to “comfort”. I’m comfortable with how you speak to me, ~so you Love me.
        Or, you said something uncomfortable~ so you don’t Love me. Under this idea, you would constantly have
        to be changing your definition of Love. (sorry for preaching)

        I knew a woman, who woke up one morning, went in her kitchen, and all the plates were turned upside down.
        All of them, ~I don’t think her mind did that. The spiritual world is real. And I mean spirit, not mind. As in spirits. So there is more at play here I think than “the effects of what you believe”. As good as that may be.
        It’s the spirit world that affects people’s health, and the spirit world is affected by the Blood of Jesus, then through principle, that I agree with you on.
        My thoughts for the day.

      • Rachel, it seems “Anon” and I have made ourselves at home and comfortable on your blog, discussing life’s lessons. My comments are to all and for all to comment on as they choose. I much appreciate the understanding I see in you, it is so appreciated seeing one has moved past the letter, and I see you know what this also means. Thank you for our developing friendship as it is not based on the outward “things” but on a mutual love that only Christ can build.

        Sonny

      • Hi Sonny, I’m grateful you two shared a helpful rapport. 🙂

    • Anon (ymous): (your response) Jan 29, 9:15

      I believe we see things similar about “grading”. I don’t see that we should be grading one another just as Paul taught that he did not even judge (grade?) himself in his journey. Neither should we. I see that we are all on this regeneration journey back to the Father from which we came. “Re” means to redo something, to “re”turn to where you were at one time. This “re”generative process if for “all” not just some. And as you say, we cannot grade ourselves but we are expected to “examine” ourselves (not others) and ask our Father to show us our lack just as it says “Acknowledge your sin (missing the mark) and I will take the sin from you. What Christ is asking us to do is to take a good look at our strengths and weakness’ and simply admit them, do not deny that we are born flawed. Many people see themselves as “bad people” with no hope. I see things that we are all born with the faults our Father purposed for us to have. This was not done for evil, but for good. When we understand the plan of God and that it pertains to us all, we see God in a different light than we did in our spiritual childhood. In our maturing, when we see others around us we no longer see them as saved, unsaved, worthy, unworthy, etc, etc, we see them as God’s other children that will be “regenerated’ back to His likeness with more than they had before coming into this valley of death experience.

      No, we do not produce life, we accept Him as He Is and when we continue to accept His “daily bread” we do acquire His likeness just as He said we would. As you see, and I concur, we don’t have to always understand what He is doing, as it does say we don’t even know what to pray for, inferring as I believe you are that even though we don’t always know or do not understand what is going on, but God does. To further this line of thought, God says we are His workmanship. We are not our own as some suppose. Yes, we must move forward by faith and with faith comes knowledge, understanding and the wisdom to make the best use of this knowledge. There have been many times in my past that in my (youthful) impatience I wanted to “do more” for God but I simply realized there was nothing I could really do to change myself for the carnal nature loves where he is at. He doesn’t want to change. We must learn to be led “until” we arrive at a place where we do stand in His likeness and His image (character). It is Faith that brings us forward on our journey. Faith is blind in part, just as children are blind to maturity but when Faith has done it’s work, Faith will be no more for when we become “one” in Him Faith will cease because Faith is but a means to an end. Just as it says knowledge will cease along with a lot of the other scaffolding. In seeing and understanding one another most times it is not at a variance, it is where we happen to be along the path and our vantage point. There are many rungs on a ladder and as we ascend this “ladder” let us converse with those regardless of the rung (understanding) they are on but let us with love and respect desire the best for others and not care whether one see as we do or not. True Love transcends differences, I wish more people were able to see this for “all scripture” but explains the two greatest commandments. No we should not try to be anything but knowledge does come first, then we try to do as this this knowledge instructs and sometimes (most times) we fail, then we learn to be patient and then we learn to “let” this mind be in us which was also in Christ Jesus. “Then” we will be just who we are without trying to be something we’re not. Faith will carry us in this knowledge until “He” appears “In us”. This is he mystery revealed.

      If we get ahead of Him we become pretentious, trying to act like Him, if we follow where He leads and understand His plan for us we with patience wait for it. Not many have this understanding.

      Let us encourage one another, let us want for others what we want for ourselves.

      Sonny

      • Excellent points, all. Very good analysis, and examination. I must point out though~
        Yes, we do see them as saved or unsaved, because Paul said, “if you have not Christ, you are none of His”,
        and a Heretic reject after a third admonition. So for the ongoing plan to be Living among us, you must include the beginning. Christ and the Apostles laid the foundation. Without it, you shipwreck. You must have Truth, or you cannot have Love. You are left with the shell of Love, without the Oyster.
        There is a form of love in the world that Satan promotes, because it has abandoned Truth. Truth is not what you “perceive”, or “see”, or “image”.
        It exists whether you perceive it or, see it, or not. And it is found in “Words”. Not in emotion or feelings, of Love. Satan fights the “Word”, with feelings and emotions, love, and anything he can use, to knock you off “the Word”.
        And yes, we do imitate, Him. The word says, you become like Him, as you see Him, (observe Him) and that we are Living Epistles.
        As you said, this depends on maturity, but we pray that we can attain to that.
        Faith will never pass away. Faith is the creative power of God, that is released in Words. Belief is accepting something you don’t see.
        (My apologies to Rachel, I used her name, because I knew she could shoulder the weight of my statements, and I wasn’t familiar with how my word’s might affect you, not knowing your nature) . (So, I glanced my blade off her armour).

  5. Anon;

    Faith is of this world, it is a belief installed in each of us for the purpose of bringing (regenerating) us back to the Father. Once we have been matured, and have let His mind be matured in us then we will no longer need to believe “something is going to happen” when it has verifiably arrived (and is no longer a belief but a fact.). Faith has fulfilled it’s purpose when we have been regenerated back to to the Father. Faith is a belief it is going to happen. When the thing happens no faith is further required that it is going to happen. If we have faith that we can get in our vehicle and drive to Alaska, faith ceases when we arrive. We do not keep on saying “I have faith that I can drive to Alaska”, for we are there. We simply say we have arrived, thus we need no more faith. I hope I have cleared up what I mean when I say faith will cease, none well need faith outside this body when he has arrived in Christ likeness, “heaven”.

    On the saved, unsaved issue, I am saying it is not for us to do the judging and pronouncing judgment upon others as “we see them”. However I do believe and see as many, “that as in Adam “all die”, so as in Christ this same “all” will be made alive. I do not argue or debate the issue any other may have as sharing my understanding of things. This goes along with your statement as to how your words may effect me.

    “Anon”, your statements are straightforward and with respect and they are not demanding, and neither are mine. This is key to good dialogue. I am not offended at all in a disagreement about what this means or what that means, for there is a greater truth to be learned on our journey and in our relationship to one another; if you truly love 1. God and 2. your fellow man you want what is best for others, you will not demand for others to see things your way in order to have a relationship with them. This is one reason I stop by Rachel’s blog, I believe she has her heart in the right place, she is not telling people “you must listen to me”, “you must see it my way”, as so many do. I also have this respect for others in common and I don’t mind conversing with others on any subject as long as we do not get personally offended. I, as one, do not believe it is one’s knowledge (for scriptures say it too also cease) or doctrine that completes one but it is in caring for others and wishing them well in their journey back to the Father in spite of what they believe. I know that it is the person that is being matured and our beliefs are building blocks to knowing about “the way” but they (beliefs) are not “the way” in and of themselves because we each often times see things differently. People need to learn to be respectful towards others views, as many believe their righteousness is by works, or in believing a certain doctrine, knowledge or a religious order. The scriptures are full of the simplicity which is found in Christ Jesus and teaches much about not judging another by what you yourself believe. I do not condemn others when they act childishly as this, for it is only a sign of their immaturity the same as a young person. Again, In other words it is being filled with Christ’s spirit and not simply being filled with a knowledge about the bible.

    We could discuss topics on and on should there be time but in short order when we discuss things as we do and we do not understand what they mean, we should just ask, without offense and move on. I personally do not look for people to agree with me as I look at this attitude as immaturity and weak. However it is good when we come to a meeting of the minds but it is not necessary in one who sees with the spirit for the spirit regards all, child and adult.

    As He is, so are we in this world. this goes along with the saying,” As a man thinketh in his heart, so is he. In other words we must see ourselves as Christ sees us and believe that we can stand in His likeness and think as He thinks and do as He does. A lot to accomplish, but it is a promise we will, we with patience wait for it.

    Anon, nice conversing with you, it is much appreciated.

    Sonny

  6. Good comments, all. It’s hard to cover all the nuances of conversation, that are involved with spiritual subject matter.
    As far as agreement, and doctrine. ~ It depends on who you are conversing with, and what the purpose of the conversation
    is about. Many are being led astray, by false doctrine. The purpose is not to make other’s see things your way,
    but that you understand what the will of the Lord is, in the conversation. From my experience, doctrine leads to maturity,
    rather than immaturity. And that includes the subject of Love, but I have not found that it includes letting everyone,
    go there own way. There are many exhortations of Love, that encourage us to come into agreement in the Lord,
    rather than exhortations that lead us to, walk as we see it, as we understand it. From that point of view I would tend
    to lean in favor of what Jesus taught.

    • From my experience obedience to the spirit leads to maturity. I have never matured from reading something, I have however read, believed and asked for guidance, faith and “a daily bread” (Christ Spirit) to be given to me. As a young man, I realized my maturity came only by obedience to the beatitudes. Nothing more. The Lord has blessed me with knowledge, understanding, and wisdom and how to apply the knowledge. He has been gracious in letting me understand many mysteries, allegories, and types and shadows and for this I am most thankful. But in all my years of study, praying, and waiting upon the Lord, I can say from experience His love only increased in me as I learned to see “all” others as myself, not condemning any, praying for those who rejected me, and so on. I learned the key to His likeness is obedience in treating others as you would have them treat you. Learning to see that all are God’s children and that God will let one go there own way but only for a season. When God gets ready to draw us, we start learning His way, first as looking through a dark glass but as we obey our vision becomes clearer. I see you give things much thought. Good conversation.

      (You know the name “Anon” doesn’t sound to bad.” have a good evening.

      Sonny

      • Every comment that you just made, is, your doctrine.
        Now you have the foundation for a calling.
        When you step into your calling, you will find that,
        you will need the rest of Jesus doctrine, beyond
        the Beatitudes. Is this what I hear you saying?

  7. Anon:

    I am simply stating what I have been given to understand, and that is I believe the beatitudes in all they’re sum parts when they each come together in our being we then have the completed spirit of Christ within us. I tend to distinguish that “the way” of Christ is not a set of rules so speak as under the old law as some suppose but more of a relationship not only with God, our Father but with every being we pass in a given day.

    A little food for thought, there were no “christian” church organizations in the days of Christ as he taught against such as in Galatians when speaking of divisions, factions and parties which are groups and or sects who have pulled away thinking their knowledge is superior to another in the church. What Christ taught was tolerance for another’s views and instead of splitting off in these different divisions (religious organizations) because of doctrine, instead work out your differences with others as much as peace will allow. It is just as so for today.

    My calling, as yours, is to put on Christ and become as He is. This is the mystery of Christ, that we are to become as He Is. What Paul meant when he said that he died daily, he was saying his carnal nature (vein, carnal ways) were being put to death on a daily basis and Christ likeness was taking it’s place and to further this for clarification Paul also said, “He must increase and I must decrease.” He finally said after much processing that he had accomplished this likeness, he had kept the faith and was ready to ascend and take his place with Christ just as God had intended.

    We all have an order in which we are called to. Yours may be different from mine and we may never see the scriptures in the same light and this is ok with me as I have learned we are prepared and given knowledge as our Father in heaven sees fit. I have been taught and see with my understanding that I am not to offend another because of “my knowledge” and if I do I will be held accountable for wounding my weak brothers conscious. God gives knowledge, understanding and wisdom for the building up of not only the one who possess this character but for the one it is being shared with so that they too may become one in Christ along with the one who is sharing or teaching. My words come from experience in this life as I have also lived and have been (and are still being) processed in many ways just as Job and Paul for we must understand Job is an allegory for you and I and everyone else. We are all tested and placed as God sees fit and who am I to second guess what God has in store for another?

    Some see it as a doctrine and I understand where they are coming from but I see it as more of a way. It was doctrine to me when His spirit were words on a page outside of myself but when I understood and saw with my spiritual eyes these words moved from letters on a page to a spiritual way in which I practice. We grow from the natural to the spiritual and God chooses the path we take and reveals Himself to us as we obey what He has presently given us to understand and obey.

    Religion is on the outside of us and as long as we see ourselves in an outward relationship with Christ we remain in darkness but when we see that everything is to be seen within ourselves as spiritual we see Christ in us. “Let this mind be in you which is also in Christ Jesus.”

    One of the most important things the Lord let me see in my natural youth was that all the scriptures from Genesis to Revelations is an inward journey played out in the natural occurrences of all recorded scripture. In other words all the natural recorded happening in the scriptures have a spiritual counterpart which is the truth we must evolve to. We are taught in the scripture that the natural comes first, then the spiritual and so it is with understanding the scriptures. Just as a journey out of Egypt to the promised land was a natural occurrence, it’s spiritual counterpart is that we move out of Egypt (the flesh) into our promised land of the spirit within. And so it is with all the scripture, As good as this knowledge is, Christ says it will cease to be, but the spirit will remain. So we should pursue the eternal, the spirit within and quit looking outside of ourselves for Christ. Those who look outside of themselves do not understand that they are the temple that God dwells “in” and that it is not a building that human hands built that someones visits infrequently. We must dwell in the true temple in which we are 24/7 and are not to visit an exterior place of worship thinking God dwells in buildings as under the law.

    I hope you understand where I am coming from but if you don’t thats perfectly fine with me as I do not judge any according to their knowledge and or doctrine for love does transcend the outer things.

    Didn’t mean to be so long but sometimes it just happens.

    Take care and I wish you the best.

    Sonny

    And a good day to you, Rachel, as well.

    I

  8. Thanks for your kind compliments in your
    previous to this, responses.
    I thought of the name Stratford on Anon.

    I really appreciate your going into length on this subject.
    That’s not offensive, I think it’s healthy.

    I have a problem with your assessment of legalism,
    and the house of God.
    The assumption is, because their is an order of worship,
    when meeting together, that, that is religious.
    I don’t think that, would qualify before Jesus as religious,
    because~ he taught in the temple all the time.
    Because you sleep in a bed, or sit in a chair, that doesn’t
    make you religious.

    It sounds like a wall on your heart, that you have built
    up through the years, to ensure your own spirituality,
    or rather safety.

    I think you might like to visit a Charismatic, or
    Pentecostal church sometime.
    I think you would find it anything but religious.
    Your thoughts on inward Spirituality are excellent,
    but if you are as free in your heart as you claim
    to be, I don’t think you would feel threatened
    by meeting with other believers.
    Any more than you feel threatened speaking
    with me, here.
    For me, your saying you do judge other’s,
    and mostly other believer’s.
    Your saying, their spirituality does not come up
    to, your level. You can’t meet their with them.
    Just a twist of analysis, I’m presenting to you.

    • Legalism in my experience is about ritualism, going to specific places on certain days, doing certain things on these particular days, at a particular time and listening to a particular person. Now there is nothing wrong with doing these things at all for I have done them all but when “they take the place of visiting and keeping the temple within” I without condemnation make an observation that people are more concerned about keeping the tradition going and looking good in other peoples eyes at the cost of pleasing Christ. We all have to judge conduct although not the person. As all should, I look, I see, and act accordingly like anyone else. We learn by being exposed to life, the good and evil and we have to decide which attributes we are going to follow and which vices we are going to reject. That is the purpose of the scripture. Where people go astray is judging and attacking the person instead of the actions of the person. Very different.

      One thing I have learned is that the spirit operates different from the carnal mind. The spirit is patient with people and is kind, understanding and does not judge and condemn comparing itself to no one. The religious “carnal mind” continually finds fault with other people not understanding that the person and the ways of the person are to be seen as two different things. Christ Himself said when you see your brother sin, keep it to your self and pray for that one. Now the sin is condemnable but not the brother for it is the brother that is being regenerated and not the sin. The sin will be cast away when God chooses to take it from him, as Paul also said, “I die daily.” We must carefully rightfully divide the word and learn to separate condemning criticism from constructive observation.

      There is no such thing as spirituality being ones own for this character trait is straight from God. For myself I believe it is premature and unhealthy to dissect a statement or two and advise someone on that alone.

      Your correct, Christ was born under the law and taught many times in the temple. This was the natural temple and what did he teach was coming? He taught that in “that day”, the day that was coming people would not worship in this mountain or that one an not in temples built with hands. Upon His resurrection, the disciples taught, where the true temple is and that is within us. So there was a “transition” from the natural temple to the spiritual temple, “US”.

      The wall has been torn down brick by brick, not built up, I know I have lived it. It is a journey, and i have lived it as I have been led to live it, perfect? No, I thank God for giving me understanding that he is merciful to our faults and encourages us to stay the course.

      I am very familiar with both the Charismatic and the Pentecostal movements that started in 1948. I have dear friends that were born into it, came up through it, taught in it, preached in it and left it because they believed it to be an outward form of so called spiritualism. I personally have been to many meetings of various groups and I condemn none in what they believe or how they worship. I know this religion very well and some of the most knowledgeable and kind people I know came through the Pentecostal way. Yes I know it well. The carnal man (ego) worships in an outward manner, the spiritual man worships in a spiritual manner.

      I have no problem with meeting at all, in fact it is quiet a healthy thing to do. I speak from priority. When the inward man grows and understands it does not matter whether your at home, under tree or in a building somewhere on a Sunday or any other day. Your the same and you know it. You condemn none for “their” religion. Everyone must pass through this life and my calling my not be yours and that’s fine with me. I have no judgement for where anyone goes or does not go. If a person believes that he should be on a pew on Sunday morning or speaking in tongues on Saturday night, I have no problem with it. Paul made this clear, that he spoke in tongues more than they all but if there is no interpreter, one should keep silent. Tongues are not a sign of spirituality, it is a sign given to one to help their weak faith as the scripture teaches. It also teaches a person of stronger faith does not need the sign of speaking in tongues, because his faith does not need encouragement to believe.

      I have been in services where many spoke in tongues and many thought they were “spiritual” for doing so but these same ones condemned others who were not like them, and i was one such person. I believe my Lord when he said in scripture that not all speak with tongues or need to. I believed my faith at the time was sufficient that I did not need to seek a sign, for my understanding of the scriptures told me and still tells me people of weaker faith seeks a sign. I can also speak of many other religious orders but it is not something that I care to particularly spend any time on for it is no concern of mine what another’s position is in Christ. If God and or Christ want you in a particular church at this time in your life, you need to be there. If a person stays in a religious organization for the rest of their life who am I to say what is for them? I can only comment on where I have been led and “my” journey. Is it the best way on may ask? It is my path as yours is yours. i trust in God that he will lead all to their conclusion, this I am certain. Another person is not my workmanship, they are God’s workmanship. Can we be instrumental without pomp and fanfare? Yes we can but we should respectfully give our understanding and should one believe it fine and if not that is fine also for we may speak the words but it is Christ who opens the mind.

      It is not my desire or wish to analyze another.

      I as Paul will say this, that I judge no man, I do not even judge myself as to how “spiritual” I am. This is for God to decide, not you and not me. I share with others what “I” see and I leave it there. I share, it is up to another to agree or disagree with what or who I am. We have to come to the place where we are secure enough that we need no one
      to agree with us. We can only speak with the understanding we are given, we cannot speak from the understanding of another can we? And if we do we are being pretentious and “religious” seeking to please others.

      Truth needs no proof, you either have it or you don’t. It does not need defending for if you feel you have to defend it, you don’t have it.

      My fellowship is with all that I meet on any given day at any given place, there is no one I disparage, and I meet with various religious minded people of all persuasions. I am not jealous of those who are further along than I am nor do I condemn those who have not walked where I have walked. It is not a question, as you say, whether they come up to my standard or not for as I said it is not for me to make the judgement. Must one deny the Christ within themselves to make another feel better because they are behind you on your journey? My faith is what I have, if it is inadequate, I trust God that He will correct and add to it if needed.

      Again, I refer to Paul’s analysis given above.

      There is a great gulf between those who can only see the outward temple and those who Christ has indwelled in the true temple. Denying Christ is not allowing Him to come into the temple in which
      your are.

      In closing I say we should look for the Christ in others and not be so quick to try to find the fault for we were born with fault. We then grow out of it with the help of our Father. it is a journey.

      Thanks for your questions, I hope I have cleared up some of your misconceptions and misunderstandings of my short letter. Yes it is kinda hard to get a full understanding in such a short space.

      Sonny

      • You are a wise man, and have a beautiful spirit You are someone I would like to know.
        know. We have many deep similarities in the history of our walk.

        Yes you have cleared up a lot. My main points of comment would be. Not to your spiritual journey, but as to knowledge. Tounges are the ~evidence of the
        Baptism in the Holy Spirit.~ They are not evidence for,~ “the fruits of the spirit”~ in a persons life.

        The Baptism of the Holy Spirit, is God’s will for every believer.

        There is a difference, between a Pentecostal, and Charismatic Church.
        Try a Charismatic Church. Here you should find enough freedom to be yourself.

        There is no evidence in the Bible, for the Church not, meeting together, or not meeting in a Building.
        James (Jesus brother), was the Pastor of the Church in Jerusalem, and they met in a building.
        A Pastor, has the spiritual authority, to watch over a flock.
        Jesus said, I am the Good Shepherd and give my life for the sheep.
        After, His ascension, he then~ gave these same gifts to men.
        Apostle, Prophet, Evangelist, Pastor and Teacher.
        These are sanctioned by God.
        These are for the benefit, of the members, not to tear them down.
        These gifts, allow the Church to come together, with order, and minister to each other
        with their various gifts, as a Church.
        These gifts, are sanctioned by God in the same way Marriage is sanctioned by God.

        Once you have established a spiritual walk, then that walk must be manifested in
        the physical realm, not just the ethereal realm, or metaphysical realm, of your spirit.
        This is what the Church is for. A place together, as a whole man, not just in your spirit.
        These points I am making may sound like legalism.
        There is a difference between legalism, and authority.
        God has set authority in the Church.
        This authority, is pre set, to woek, to, and for your advantage, not against it.
        Every one is under this command of authority, whether they choose it or not.

        This subject matter is covered in the New Testament.
        This is where God’s will, and authority are found.

  9. Anon:

    Thanks for your civility. Simply said we are on the same path, this is what is important to me. My desire for you is genuine and it hasn’t anything to do with our perspective on scripture. One man is at the right base of the pyramid and another on the left side but they both ascend from very different perspectives, however as they near the top they see the same view clearer and clearer. They now sit at the top having exactly the same perspective, seeing things alike. Where they had differences at the base of what they thought they would see, they both now humbly apologize to the other for their equally misunderstood perspective. They both now realized their callings were from different sides of the summit but the journey’s end is the same.

    We are the true temple (our body) of our heavenly Father, the true building not made with hands. Looking at it from this priority we then take our true “temple” with us wherever we go or meet. When we go to a building made with hands, call it a house, a church or a barn we take our “priority temple with us. Knowing this we can then be comfortable knowing where our priorities are and where the “truth” (Christ) really dwells. When enough enlightened temples come together to worship it is a wonderful humbling experience.

    So, it is good to come together where ever that may be but if we do not have the true temple (within) in order before going to the outward temple it is of little value. Going with our heart knowing who we really are benefits much.

    It’s been nice.

    In Christ

    Sonny

  10. From listening, or reading rather, your
    comments, and the depth of your
    understanding.~ and the history of
    your life.

    1) I feel you have a calling to the
    Ministry on your life.~
    (higher than what you are walking in)

    2) I was following the same path you are,
    until I received a prophecy from a
    Prophet, telling me to get back in line
    with the truth, that I knew, or the Lord
    would remove my candlestick.

    • Yes and I have learned not to get ahead of the Lord. Our Lord Jesus was prepared for 30 years and His ministry of teaching was rather short. There is much to be said about one’s preparation and I see many orders being fulfilled in peoples lives. When a young man of around the age of twenty or so the Lord came into my life more powerful than I understood at the time. It was a one on one experience you might say, completely alone, no one around, no group, no other at the time. I answered His call and as I looked upon a written word lying there in front of me and wondering where should I go and what should I do, in a still small voice I received a message of direction. It lacked any grandeur of becoming somebody. It was a message of if I would apply myself to seeking Him and His ways then all I needed of the scriptures would be revealed as a result.

      Being now equipped with a more earnest desire I studied, prayed and asked for guidance. I was never one for seeking the crowds or the adulation many seek and desire, as I saw this as vanity and a weakness. When meeting with others as time passed, going here and there, I learned much about people seeking for God in as many ways as there are thoughts but that still small voice kept the pomp from rising in my heart and wanting to become “somebody” in other peoples eyes. I see us as one, not above or below. There were different groups here and there that came out of the religious systems so to speak and because many believed since they physically removed themselves from the error they were seeing they were now better off. But the problem is one is no better off if you still retain the notion that “we have it” and you don’t. Sometimes when I would speak that we must move past knowledge and become as He is I was most often misunderstood by the old goats in the room vying for the highest stump in the pasture thinking that gain (of knowledge) is Godliness. What I observed about the very great and knowledgable teachers is that they reached a plateau of liking the adulation, flattery and respect they gained from their followers. Now these same ones preached a good message about coming out of the “system” but although outside the system from which they came they were establishing or attempting to establish preeminence themselves.

      What we need to learn is that we may come of out many outward places and religious systems but unless we see we need to shed this carnal mind of desiring to be known, we remain imprisoned to the flesh. Now in making these observations, I did not condemn any, but neither did I fall in line and become a “follower” and I have never asked anyone to become a follower of myself. I would persuade any to become a follower of Christ as each is led.

      Being young, full of confidence and hope I thought naively that my journey may not take very longer either but as I passed the age of thirty and then thirty three and then forty, I became aware of the experiences I needed to pass through and realized everyone is an individual in the Lord’s eye and each is fitted as our Heavenly Father has purposed. As many of the fellowships I attended near and far splintered and all went different ways I felt no loss because I was led to believe “all” I meet and greet in the course of a day is my fellowship and I was to treat all with mutual respect and love them as I knew Christ loved us all without any respect of person. A person we meet for the first time need no more than a simple greeting and this may be all that is required. If there is a need the Lord will provide a word when the need arises. We should not fill them with unnecessary words and knowledge expounding on any self importance but a genuine concern without words is often enough.

      I believe I have not yet obtained the fullness of my calling for I do not see all the dross burned off. To further share and answer your observation about my calling and there is a deeper walk, I can’t agree with you more. As far as what the future holds as far as ministering in this world that is up to our Father in Heaven. It has been a long, tough journey, although incomplete, I am aware there is more. I make myself available to those who ask, although I do not demand any to see as I see or do as I do as this leading must come from the Lord. If and when God requires one to step up and out there so to speak, I pray they will, myself included. Sometimes we are so anxious to help when not asked, we do more harm than the good. We must learn to see with our hearts and understand the need to whom we speak and give a word that fits their need, with no concern of ourself.

      My candlestick? It has flickered throughout the years as my oil ran low at times as the pressure of the press ( that made the new oil) became so intense I wondered where God was and why I felt so alone in a dry and desolate country. Yet deep within, as I saw in Job’s experiences, that I too if I kept my eye on the goal, our Lord would complete His promise. Have I received the promise, yes I have (in part), for it has always been within the veil in me just as it was in the symbolic natural tabernacle in the wilderness. If we learn the building process of the natural temple in the old testament with it’s compartments and how they relate to one another we learn how we are structured also for the natural tabernacle is a replica of the true temple in which we are. There is much light and understanding about ourselves to be found in studying the natural for God said He created the natural to help understand the spiritual.

      So is there more ahead for me personally you ask? I believe there is but the Lord must choose my course and when. We must not get ahead of the Lord and build our own kingdom, we must wait upon the Lord. Remember Abraham and Sarah believing the promises of an heir and getting anxious and attempting to provide a heir with natural means by supplying a bond woman, Hagar, to be the mother of the heir? Abraham and Sarah thought they were well past in years what they thought was possible to meet with God’s promises and approval. So they came up with a plan of their own and although well meaning it was not what God had in mind. God, after letting Abraham and Sarah try to do it their way, He came forth and showed them He would according to His promise fulfill His predestined plan.

      We too feeling the urgency of wanting to see ourselves and His plan complete tend to get ahead of ourselves wanting to do the right things, although not asked. I do pray and ask others to pray that we may all learn to listen and learn to speak what we hear our Father speak and do what we see our Father do. Nothing more and nothing less.

      I agree with you that I am not walking in all that I am capable of and I pray as Paul gave me example to press forward forward toward the mark of the high calling in Christ Jesus. We may see the end, however we must with patience wait for it. To desire to help others without self in the way is a healthy view to have. May we all achieve all that the Father has for us.

      As I was re reading Rachel’s post above and connecting with the simplicity of her understanding I then happened to see your latest comment and together it prompted me to share a little more.

      My youthful self confidence left me as I learned that it was better to have confidence in the Lord that He would complete me and it would be better according to His timing and purpose. Self has to be taking out of the picture for His likeness to appear. May we all come to stand in His likeness and image just as God first declared in Genesis.

      May we continue to grow

      Sonny

      • If you go to an independent Charismatic,
        or Spirit Filled church, you won’t be in
        much of a system.~
        You will be in a Church where people
        are trying to love each other as a family,
        and praying and working for a goal,
        established by the Lord, to reach a city,
        established in unity, to help each other.
        I don’t think the Lord leads people~
        ~((as they see fit))~.
        Mainly because, they won’t fit anywhere.
        Independence is only important, as it
        meets dependence, otherwise it holds no
        outstanding qualities.~
        It’s important to have, and allow, other
        people to, love you, whether your known
        or unkown, at least your not lost, among
        the unknown.
        I just don’t want to see you~ slammed,
        up against the ribs of a fish.
        Beaten by the barnacles of Bill the
        Sailor, that never could be Taylored.
        This is how God leads~
        as He sees fit.
        It’s the timing of a Sailors Knot.

  11. I see what your saying and where you are coming from and I respect that, however there is much to say about the two women in Revelations and the saying “Come out of her my people.” We may get into it one day but I don’t think Rachel’s forum is the place. If you would like for me to send you my understanding on these two women i would be happy to. Everything that you read in the scripture whether type, shadow or mystery you must parallel it within your being or it has little value. All is within your spiritual tabernacle for those who have eyes to see (understand) this wonderful truth.

    Thanks

    Sonny

    • The verse actually reads,
      “come out of her my people
      that you be not partakers of
      her sins”.
      So, by ‘coming out’~ on those
      grounds~ you would simply,
      be exchanging ‘their sins,~
      for yours’.
      There is no place to go.
      The verse is not referring to
      a “physical movement”~ from
      somewhere.
      He is saying, “All of my people,
      stay in repentance of sin”.
      “Come out of Sin.”

      This is why it is important
      to go to church; to find balance.
      In other words, you find a group
      you have some confidence in.
      So you can find the Will of the Lord.
      All individual will, is tied to His Will.
      You are members, one of another.
      Remember, Communion?
      The blood, and bread.
      That’s what it is.
      Communion among people.

      I’m preaching to myself.
      I’m just encouraging you to keep
      balance in your theology so to speak.
      Am I making any sense?

  12. Thanks for you time,
    and all good words.
    I would have to think about, that
    a bit,as I am, followed by the FBI,
    for my religious persuits.
    I don’t think you need that in your
    life.
    I will turn you back over to
    Rachel.

  13. Yes, God’s love does heal all. I just wish he had arms to hug too. Meghan

    • Your husband gets
      discouraged.
      Try speaking light and
      brightness over him.
      Don’t take his word’s so
      seriously, as to good or
      bad. This is a learned form
      of communication for him,
      to break criticism, and to
      bring a bond.
      It’s his way of loving,
      but it can be changed by
      your Love.
      I give you a big hug.

      • Did I reply to this? If not I should have. I was looking over some of my past comments and I smiled remembering you writing this. I have tried to speak blessings on him when he is mad (unfortunately I am doing it in my head, I don’t want to make him more mad) and at least I can smile knowing that I am giving it over God. Thanks for making a difference in my life. Meghan

      • Yes, at first it will take
        him by surprise. And he
        may even get mad.
        But soon, he will began
        to change, because he will
        come to realize how you
        are choosing to see the good
        in him, rather than the bad,
        (which is really a reaction that
        he uses) to try to be in control,
        at times when he is low.
        He tries to shock you, to see
        if you are still paying attention,
        and still care.
        When he sees he is not
        having to cheer you up, then
        he will be able to cheer
        himself, and he will begin
        to see that God, is in control.
        Then he can more easily
        begin to turn his attitude over
        to God; and relax, and have fun,
        He is not a bad man, or evil.
        He needs God’s security.
        I love you.
        (my thoughts)

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