Living Light

Stirring The Deep

The Perfect Gift Exchange

31 Comments

The Perfect Gift Exchange

 

Tree Soul

Soul Tree 

by Angela Wales Rocket

 

There is no greater or more cherished gift for ourselves or for our divine Father than for us to freely, willingly, and desirously give him our “free” will to govern. He accepts it under no other terms. In a joyful release of this gift, an immortal bond of love is established between us and the Spiritual Parent of our souls. From this immortal choice, we eternally expand by his divine harmony.

Our will is the power to control our actions, impulses and emotions. Possessing control of our will is like being a dormant seed in the ground. Our soul remains encased by a hard shell of confinement as our governance of will is fraught with limitations and illusions. These create a perceived separation from love that lead to pain, suffering, guilt, fear, judgment, pride, and decay. Our Father’s will for us is boundless as it flows from the perfection of love and truth. In his governance, we become a tree of life of abundant growth. In his magnificent rays of eternal light our souls expand branch by branch.

With our Father’s divine love guiding every movement, our finite soul that was encased in a tiny shell of limitation breaks open and starts to grow into a magnificent tree of eternal life. As our roots of understanding reach beyond the limitations of this earthly realm into the consciousness of our Father, they drink in his truth and divine love. Over time this nourishment cracks open our shelled soul bound by the confinements of our will as it takes on his will of divine truth and love. In time, we witness growth pushing out of the soil. Our external reality is changed in ways we long hoped for during our seemingly endless days of cultivation. But as the seedling sprouts, those days of traversing the wilderness of our soul as we sought for his living waters to flow through our dendritic roots pale in comparison to the glories that his loving husbandry creates through us.

We are soul. Our soul determines all that our spirit, mind and body reflect. God is soul. In the connection of our souls is where our oneness is fashioned. His soul through a metamorphic oneness with ours becomes the progenitor of all that we are; spirit, mind and body. We open up the door of our soul and welcome him home when we realize there is no greater gift; none more desirable and precious than for his will to consume our own at a depth in which we experience his will as our own. In this oneness, every transgressive potentiality is extinguished and we find the fulfillment of all our hopes and all his promises.

Author: Rachel

My passion is cultivating a deep relationship with God and helping others to do the same. I LOVE sharing with others insights that God has taught me and hearing what God has taught them... thus my blog, Stirring the Deep. My focus is on a relationship, not a religion. Life is in the relationship. I believe in a balance and unity of body, mind and spirit. I feel it's important to nurture all three for they all affect each other. I try to live in the present, where the Holy Spirit is. And I try to do all with the motive of love. I've come to believe life is a journey and not a destination. It isn't about perfection, is it about growth.

31 thoughts on “The Perfect Gift Exchange

  1. Hi Rachel it’s really interesting how you used the idea of the tree and seed growing as I love making things and painting and ever since I went through a really upsetting time in my life and I prayed to god to reveal the truth to me and to show me what it was I needed to do I began to paint trees and draw them and butterfly’s and these two things became really important to me and I started noticing them where ever I was.sounds crazy I know but I just had a feeling deep down that this was an important message that I needed to take note of.what do you think?
    Kind regards,

    • Hi Paula,

      For me the process of growth of a tree … as well as the metamorphosis of a caterpillar to a butterfly are two very significant and revealing analogies of the transformation our soul goes through as we begin to be changed by our Father’s divine love and paralleling truth. The various stages of transformation of both of these reveals much about our journey. They hold many important lessons in them. I’m sure as you listen to what they share about your journey, you’ll gain much from them.

      • Thankyou for your reply I will keep it in mind x

      • Hi Rachel sorry to ask lots of questions but I have been watching your videos and reading your blogs for a while now and I was wondering if you could tell me what made you change your approach to explaining god and the bible as they are so different to your older posts which you had taken off because you felt they were no longer relevant.was interested in what it was that changed your views.thanks x

      • Hi Paula,

        No problem. I’m glad you asked.

        In my previous videos and blogs, my understanding was growing and deepening within and around a “doctrinal” level. The layers of truth expressed to me through the words by the spirit were amazing. I’d learned much through this phase of my journey and the spirit of truth had taken me deep into it, as I had gone through various levels within the doctrines themselves. But there was much more to understand.

        Now I know my perspective needed to enhance or expand for my growth to continue, which meant I needed to experience a deeper knowing of his love, a love that consumes all truth and establishes truth. The spirit led me to to know our Father and his truths and love beyond the doctrinal perspectives, for he is before and beyond all the doctrines. They are glimpses of much deeper understandings as are many things in the world around us, and the higher or more fuller perspective we have the more “rightly” we view them. It’s like ascending a mountain. The higher we get the more our perspective changes, we see things we didn’t see before and what we saw before we differently as we see the relations between elements.

        Truth continues to build and thus deepen, and the more we go into its depths the more we understand what we previously learned and went through. As we gain a more expansive perspective through his love, we see more clearly, though we never know as we ought to know. Thus, why we are always open and humble to learn more from our faithful Teacher. Even now the acceleration into truth’s depths is incredible. Sometimes in our finite mind, we think we have the truth we need. But if we hold that belief, then we’ve limited ourselves in a multitude of ways, which ultimately limits our experience of his love and our expressions of that love.

        As I followed the spirit’s leading .. which took me into a consuming arena of love and “seeing” our Father’s love in deeper ways, I actually gained more clarity of scriptures. I learned that the relationship with our Father was found in being changed by his love and letting his love fill every aspect of my being and understanding. It seems obvious to say, but to experience it in truth and spirit is a soul changing experience and very different from a theoretical explanation. Sometimes, we get stuck in doctrines and never discover his love, it remains a shadowy concept. But if we keep following the leading of the spirit of truth, he will lead us into his love that consumes all our understanding, including that of the doctrines. When I was led beyond the doctrine and into his consuming love, it re-oriented my perspective and it deepened the way I saw the truths presented not only in the doctrines, but through my circumstances, creation, etc. Truth as love is all consuming. It touches every aspect of our lives. This gave me new perspectives, thus the place from which I shared what I was learning changed because of my experiences of his love .. and it was from this love that I desired to speak and share seeing how superior it was to my former ways of expression.

      • Hi also was wondering if you would give your opinion on dishonesty in a long term relationship where a partner has treated in a way that is dishonest and shows total lack of responsibility as a father and a partner.he has been unfaithful with my once best friend and the list goes on but when ever I try to confront him about the things he has done that are wrong he always brings it back to himself and blames his difficult past as a child and therefore shows me very little support.i pray to god for guidance all the time about what should do but I am so confused as we have young children plus all my friends and relatives feel that I should leave him for good but that feels like I’m giving up on him…any ideas on how I might understand relationships better in truth and love as you talk about differences of natural love based our own will in contrast to gods love of truth and light?….sorry I know your not a relationship expert but would appreciate your take on this thankyou x

      • Hi Paula,

        I’m so sorry for the pain that you’ve felt through this, and there is an answer to what you seek. It takes time to hear its reply, because sometimes along the way our own heightened understanding and growth is required. This is what I’ve learned and I pray it helps you on your path.

        No two relationships are the same and you’ll only be satisfied in the end if you follow what the promptings deep down in your heart tell you, not what others outside of you tell you to do. Those deep promptings come from our Father … as he is always wanting to lead us in what is best for us and others, and each situation is its own. Those inner promptings when heard rightly are absent of fear, judgment, anger, guilt, pride, and even our own pain. Sometimes it takes persisting in our prayer to get to that place beyond all these. Since they come from him, there are always flowing from a place of love.

        A guiding response to any relationship interaction is treating the other as you would want to be treated. This simple advice holds a lot of power, clarity and perfection in how it helps us navigate the often confusing waters of relationships. To do this we have to honestly try to put ourself in the other’s position with their “issues” and their perspectives … isn’t possible to fully do this as we can only truly know our own perspective, but in a willingness to do so, we are opening up to see them and the situation in a a bit clearer different perspective that helps the Spirit shine a light on the answers we seek. Once in their perspective, we ask, how would we want someone to respond to us in this condition? And we always desire a loving response, whatever it may be. There is so much misunderstanding, ill-assumptions, and miscommunication because of varying perspectives, even between long time relationships. As we seek to put our perspectives aside and truly try to understand the other we can better hear not only their soul but also are own.

        Love is a choice, always a choice. Some don’t want to love but prefer their judgments, pride, retribution, anger, self-pity, victimization, etc. To choose these is also a choice NOT to have a relationship. There is only a connection when there is a willingness and desire to love the other; to care for their wellbeing, to want their best, to desire their growth in love and truth. We may waver in and out of these emotions that are contrary to love, but if we dwell in them, we’ve already ended the relationship. A willing heart to truly want to love is all it takes, not the ability to love well.

        Some don’t understand this choice for love and helping them to see it and the choice they have can be a great gift and a great awakening to their own soul and journey. And if they sincerely do want to love then forgiveness and healing can occur. This is the desired path, for in the healing the experience of the hurt and pain is dissolved. This path takes patience and compassion through our frailties and issues as they try to love and as we try to do the same.

        Others don’t want to love, as I mentioned, they would rather hang on to other emotions and responses that counter love. We can’t force someone to choose love, it’s impossible. But we can present the choice to them, lovingly. If they don’t, then they don’t want a relationship. Their answer lies not in their words, but in their responses of showing a willingness to love. Only in love is there a connection that a relationship can be established upon. Love never forces itself. If they don’t desire love, then we must honor their choice, and honor ours for it. Then we respond how we feel led by that inner prompting .. which again never comes from fear, judgment, guilt, etc .. but always love.

        To have an intimate relationship both souls have to want to love. The living out of love is not perfect, of course. But the desire needs to be there or it isn’t a relationship. And there is only harm.

        Let the spirit of truth examine your own heart, and give this revealing some time. Do you truly choose to love in each interaction or is there something else driving your responses and interactions (judgment, “punishing the other”, anger, withdrawal, control, fear, self-pity, guilt, hypocrisy, etc). Let your interactions align to this desire to only love in truth and sincerity. For when we align our desires to only want to give an honest love, then this can have significant impact on the other person. And as we give the other this gift, we can ask that they do the same. If you take the time to explore this path, then whatever happens afterwards will leave a peace within your soul.

        My prayers and love are with you.

      • Hi Rachel
        I just want to thank you so much for your lovely reply it really means a lot to me and has helped me to gain some clarity.it becomes so confusing when you go to family to get advice but naturally they are angry and want to protect me and so the advice can often be very one sides and negative.so i am so very grateful that you have taken the time to send such a thoughtful reply,thankyou.
        Kind regards
        Paula x

      • Paula, I’m so very grateful to our Father and his Christ, whom truth and love flows, that those words spoke to you. And may the answers you seek come with a clarity, courage, and constant love.

      • That was beautiful,
        Rachel.

  2. Rachel,
    I would like you to read
    the book~
    “Heaven Is So Real”,
    by Choo Thomas.

    • Hi … I hadn’t heard of it. May I ask what stands out to you about it that you would suggest it? Just curious.

      • Yes,
        I found it
        fascinating.
        It’s about a woman,
        an American Korean,
        her family is of Korean
        origin, and Jesus took her
        to Heaven many times.
        And he told her many
        things about Heaven,
        and about the times we
        live in.
        It’s pretty strange and
        mystical in some ways,
        and somewhat traditional
        as far as Christianity,
        in some ways.
        But it is in no way placid,
        or tame, or unexciting.
        It will challenge your
        belief system.
        It’s a bit fantasia, but
        very serious.
        I couldn’t make you believe
        it, you would have to have
        your own thoughts about it.

  3. God is spirit, a oneness which broken into visibility we see creation in parts. When God created things out of Himself these things took on many forms. Not only were there physical things created such as the stars, moon and planets but things unseen, such as words, thoughts and actions. The beatitudes and the works of the flesh are can all be spirit or spiritual things whether manifested into actions or not.

    As we observe the celestial heavens, we know there is are spiritual heavens, as we observe all things natural, our eyes are opened to all they represent in the spirit for there is nothing made in the natural which does not have a spiritual explanation whether a planet, a rock or a tree as all of these things represent something spiritual. Take clouds and fire for example. Many equate fire with something terrible but God equates Himself as the all consuming fire. The children of Israel moved by night as the fire hovered over the tabernacle as a cloud hovered over it by day and the children moved as the cloud moved “by day.” All of these seemingly insignificant “things” and there resulting actions depict something in our everyday life. God is that consuming fire hovering over us in our dark experiences of our moving, our processing and this fire moves us in our night experiences. We do not see well at night so the fire directs our journey in the night. Then comes the day where the cloud hovers over us, our tabernacle and when we see the cloud move, we move or we are left behind in the wilderness of sin, just as the stragglers in Israel. In other words we must “see” and understand the spiritual in all things as they have their purpose. We must see Jesus Christ coming in the “clouds”, not physical clouds but spiritual clouds, we must see Him not in tabernacles and buildings made with hands but in us where He truly dwells and gives off His light within the fallen soul depicted by the seven golden candlesticks which are the seven perfect or complete lights of God. Although all the seven candlesticks are seven different lights they all are fed by one reservoir depicting the oneness of Gods understanding. God is one and as we search for Him in all of His segregated created parts we will find “one” mind, one heart and one spirit in the consummation of our journey. Our spirit remains in the same unaltered condition in us, our true tabernacle in which the natural only represented. It was the soul that was lowered into a fallen condition, the feminine or weaker part of our spirit and soul. The spirit remains constant behind the veil in the most holy place where God dwells in us and the darkened fallen soul residing on the other side of the vail will again reunite with the spirit once our vail is rent thus making a way for us into the holy of Holies where God dwells with us. He has always been there and as he daily removes the vail from our eyes we see Him as He is.

    Let us look doe the goodness of God in all things and we will see Him as He is if we look for Him with “eyes” looking for Him in substance (love) and not in the types and shadows. It is good to know the types and shadows but it is better to know Him in spiritual and in truth as the law is only a shadow while the anti types are all about the truth, and truth can only be found if you become it.

    • As people continue to pray for you
      God will slowly melt all this religion
      out of you.
      Then you will find the love that brings
      every day reality into focus,
      and will allow others to truly love you.

    • Hi Sonny,

      Just this morning I was thinking of the pillar of fire and the cloud that led the Israelites through their wilderness journey. These stories can be used to teach us spiritual lessons that help us understand our soul journey, and help us along our journey as our ears mature to hear their many and varied lessons. Each story can hold many treasures of understanding that come as we are ready to receive. Each layer of soul advancement opens us another layer of understanding, and vice versa. Everything is here to teach us as we are willing to learn .. to teach us about the inner places that create our outer places.

      Here are some simple symbolic thoughts that spawned by your reflections, so thanks for sharing.

      God is love, his consuming fire is his love; for truly it is love that refines and changes our soul. It may seem “weak” but that is only its gentleness we perceive, there is nothing stronger. When we willingly give our souls and lives into his molding, it’s his love that is the powerful progenitor of metamorphosis in our soul, for he is molding us into his reflection, which is love.

      As we begin the traversing of the wilderness of our soul .. leaving the world system behind .. the refinement by his love and truth commence. He leads us through the night seasons with his love. Trust in His love is our beacon of hope through those dark and difficult times, for we know his love never fails. As love has its work in us, we enter into the light of day as we feel the victory of having passed through another night season, and we are moved by his glory. The glorious perfection of his ways are seen by us as we pass from the night/darkness/lies and into the day/light/truth. These understandings give us glimpses of his glorious ways. His glory is revealed in part to us as we learn the perfection of his ways that comes from our own experience of having been refined/remade by his love. This understanding keeps us pushing forward, thus lead by the cloud. The fire in our night refines us, and the glory of in the day reveals the perfection of that refinement and keeps us moving forward. Both work together to bring us to the fulfillment of his promises for our soul.

      By trekking through the wilderness that refines our soul, we are prepared to be united to him in an inseparable oneness. When we are ready, His glory fills the temple; our soul. It’s the dawning of the everlasting Day, which extinguishes the night forever. The wilderness was a time of preparation as we feasted on his truth that brought us to the promise land, a soul of abundance, a soul full of his eternal light, thus a soul child of his reflection.

  4. Continued from above:

    If I understand you correctly, Rachel, you are saying that your views are shifting from what they have been in the past and in this shifting you are gaining a different perspective from your previous “outward doctrinal beliefs.” When we start seeking God in a more meaningful way, having come from the natural plane, we move from natural understandings to more and more of a spiritual understanding seeking the likeness and attributes of our Father, thus we will have a continual shifting from the natural to the spiritual. This is what I believe we are all saying that truly desires a closer relationship with our mutual Father. I believe we see this in a very similar if not identical manner. I see that as we become more desirous of being found in the likeness of our Father through the pattern of the Son, we desire little else but to be like Him, sacrificing all of our natural vices of the natural mind.

    We must leave the outward rituals and observances and become what they represent in spirit, in the anti type, a moving from the outward to the inward.

    As In the statements I made earlier today it is apparent that the written word is written in a natural way as to help explain the spiritual. This is explained in the scriptures.The natural is temporary while it is the spiritual things that will remain. As we move more and more into the spiritual realm, leaving the natural behind, we see that all natural things reveal a journey that although explained in an outward natural way, we see that it is really depicting an inward journey. We see the outward tabernacle in the wilderness in Israel’s day as a natural tabernacle with the table of shewbread, the candles sticks and the alter of incense in the holy place, while the mercy seat, ark and cherubim were located in the Holiest of Holies, behind the vail, adjacent to the holy place.

    We are the true tabernacle as only the natural one could attempt to explain. The Holiest of Holies is where God dwelt behind the vail, always there on the other side of the vail that separated the two compartments. These two compartments represents our spirit and soul. The outer court represents our body, so we are complete in the natural as spirit, soul and body. What is constant and undivided is spirit for God is one, He is undivided in Spirit. Our soul is the blinded part of us, the weaker spirit within depicted as being taken from the spirit of Adam and given a separate “compartment” behind the vail. All this is allegorical to teach us in allegory what we truly are and will be when God completes our process. The natural is a school for the spiritual.

    As we grow and understand inward spiritual things more and more and as we search for the true path that leads to God we see ourselves shifting away from doctrinal views which are about things on the outside of us. As we start to see that the outward natural parallel only “represents” what goes on in the spirit realm in our very being we start to look deep within ourselves to find God in the spirit, this turning away from the natural shadow of things. We realize we will not find our Father and His likeness by observing days and weeks and months and years or believing God dwells in buildings made with hands.

    We, by seeking God deep within our very being, we see by the spirit that we are the true building, we see in truth we have the seven golden candlesticks in our Holy Place within our tabernacle representing the light of God within our soul (holy place). We see as we look at the natural Holy of Holies that God is always with us, always constant behind the vail just adjacent to our soul. We, the true tabernacle, being divided as the two compartments in the natural tabernacle explains, are also divided as in the fall, now having spirit and soul. The soul (woman) was taken out of the spirit of Adam and lowered and put behind a fleshly vail of flesh thus Adam in reality becoming spirit and soul where he once was only spirit.
    We are spirit and soul also for we follow the pattern. When the vail was rent at the crucifixion of Christ, this natural occurrence signified in the spiritual parallel that now a way was being made to reunite our soul and spirit, to have our soul to move toward the Holiest of Holies, a place that was once impenetrable in the natural tabernacle. Now our soul could move toward the spirit and where our soul was once cut off from becoming one with the spirit, we could now become one in spirit again. This is accomplished by the disobedient soul (wife, woman, weaker feminine part of us) realizing that we in our soul must obey the spirit inward and be subject to it. This coming together of the once separated spirit and soul is now a bride (soul) becoming betrothed to her husband (the spirit) where the two become one.

    In this shifting of our soul toward the spirit we are continually going through change. This is an ever continuing shift in the paradigm of life until all of our soul is disciplined and united with our spirit, thus making each of us a new creation.

    Let us be steadfast, not trusting in ourselves, but trusting in our Father through the example that our Lord and Savior, Jesus Christ came to this earth to be and therefore to show us the obedient path our soul should take back to the spirit from which she came.

    We should not be too concerned about changes being made to us and in us because this “earth” which we are, will continually quake and as a result of this shaking, all that is not like and of God will fall away, leaving a perfected chiseled and honed likeness of another Perfected child of God.

    Let us use the types, allegories and shadows of the law only to explain, amplify and prove the true spirit within, however let us not put more worth in these things than are there.

    Rachel, if this is your shifting and changing that you are going through as you are describing it is only because you are being called and drawn to understand more and more of spiritual things therefore….It’s…a good thing.

    All things work together for good to those who seek Him “in spirit” and “in truth.” There is no doubt you have this desire.

    • Hi Sonny,

      The connection and interplay between the spiritual and natural grew and expanded during many years of my journey. When we start to learn from our Father’s spirit of truth, he reveals these many layers to us … with the intent of leading to a place above all revelation that consumes all revelation … our Father’s divine love. It was experiencing our Father’s love in greater depths, awareness, and thus realness .. than I did before that altered my perspectives in which I am referring to.

      His divine love, of amazing purity and perfection, shed a new light, like the light from a glorious morning sun illuminating a garden, upon all I knew and it changed what I saw and how I saw it. Before I was learning many truths by seeing the spiritual within the natural, and they brought me to the gate of his divine love, but once I entered in by desiring to be the love he revealed to me (a transformative process as you know), it washed over all my understanding. Not necessary making it different, but like adding arrays of color to what was once gray. And deep alterations to my understanding came as fear, judgment, pride, guilt … and all else contrary to love was being removed from my perceptions by his love.

      And now, as these elements and others like them tied to a corrupted nature are pushed out by his increasing love .. his love intensifies within and continues to adjust my perspectives as it has its way with my soul. As we are reminded, we can have all understanding, but if not love, then we have nothing. His love brings deeper understanding to everything we know. It is the light in the darkness. In the darkness (layers of blindness in our soul perceptions), we can learn about truth/love which is the light, but until our souls start to be transformed by his love, his love/truth remain only conceptual understandings and we in the dark. But as we are transformed in our soul by his love, thus light starts to expand within us, they become our living reality.

      In his love, we are humbled. I feel so unqualified to speak of his love for I feel I fall so short in expressing it as I desire, and yet I can’t deny the changes that are occurring inwardly. So I can’t help but share what I’m learning. Moving into his love, I realize on many levels our deep need for it.

      In your comment, I noticed how we use soul and spirit are a bit different. These words are used to reflect different things to different people. For clarity sake, how do you see the interrelationship of soul and spirit?

      From where I am now, I see the spirit as the expression, energy, “life” that flows from the soul. So soul is made up of our truth and our beliefs and spirit is the expression of them. So when we are taught by our Father’s spirit … or his Holy spirit works his love in us .. it is the sprit that emanates from him, or his soul.

      Rachel

      • Rachel,

        Spirit and soul

        Even though today we have an appreciation, gratitude, and love we did not have in our natural beginning from our spiritual infancy in seeing our “past” lack of His nature, we by memory want to project into today what was lacking in our yesterday. In other words we have not learned to let go of our yesterday’s likeness of our carnal “self” into our present forgiven state of having the past wiped away. As you have said we should live in the present and not in the past or in the future. I know this feeling and I have experienced this same growing and experienced the process for all we have is the now, just as we will have the now, then, when we are complete. We will just be…with no yesterday or no tomorrow for time will cease when we are complete in Him.

        As you know, the consciousness of sin, we tend to not let go of is what hinders us in our growth. We tend to want to believe our sins remain when they have been done away with. In our present state in reality there is no more remembrance of sin, so if God is telling us there is no more remembrance from Him, why are we giving remembrance to it and fouling our present waters? (Remember your reference to Romans 7) We know better but as Paul said, the ability to do, the good we would do is not there yet because we have only been given direction and knowledge, which comes first, and if we wait and do not give up, the reality will be given. It’s like saying “Would you like this gift I am revealing to you, and it is yours if you will persevere and not let the evil one (self consciousness of sin) come and convince you of some other way? He sows Himself into our hearts and puts His way into us as one sows the good seed and as the parable explains some find good ground and some find rocky or lesser soil and “nutrients” so that some seed do not produce as much fruit (love) as sown in the good ground. That seed is Christ, in our earthly body, in our field, and we either cherish it and nurture it by keeping the weeds (bad attitudes and ways) out of us or we neglect this weeding out of bad habits and condescending attitudes toward others and accept a lesser calling in our life. The scriptures are written toward the understanding of the high calling in Christ Jesus and this is what we strive for but it is not the only calling, and there is no lack or loss of one soul in God’s plan.

        I also have had this similar experience of His love entering into my being and pushing out the negative influences of the carnal mind, the “old man” so to speak. If we are represented by a glass that is full of “natural” dirty water that one cannot see through for lack of pureness and clarity (representing the fallen soul) and a crystal clear water (representing the single and undivided spiritual nature of God) is poured into this glass (us) little by little it (or we) will become as pure as the spirit of God in time for the dirty water will be displaced by the pure, clean water in the spirit. If we obey and let this love flow in without resisting it and denying Him, we will not have to empty ourselves because in reality we cannot empty ourselves. This is because we are His workmanship, we are not our own.

        So, if we believe in His promises, which we do, we know that if we wait on His workings in us, His pureness will prevail and we will become as clean as that which is poured into us. He does not give us of some other spirit but of Himself, to be like Him in every attribute, as being one in spirit, this is the gift of life, the promise, and the reward.

        I also can empathize with you in this mutual feeling of “unworthiness” as this is because as I stated above we are remembering really what does not pertain to us anymore but we still are believing the lie that our carnal minded self is falsely telling us. God says our sins are no more and are as far from Him as east is to west, however we see them as still part of us because we have not learned to let the old man die and the new man rise. Paul said, “I die daily” and as he died daily he made it clear that he as well as us will be renewed day by day as we consume our daily bread which is the anointing in Christ Jesus. So, we will ultimately come to that place where we will give absolutely no place to this inherent doubt and insecurity, nor will we be looking down at others from our self appointed pedestal at all as we will see their end in a completed state just as we do ours in the very likeness and love of God.

        This is when “all” will be delivered from our negative fallen self to his glorious likeness. We must learn to face God and turn our back on every negative thought that comes to our mind for our carnal mind is continually trying to condemn ourselves. This is something I learned very well as I had these self doubts for many years and as I acknowledged my sin as we are instructed to do, I did not like what I saw and the self condemnation was almost unbearable. This was decades ago. I now see the value of being left in such a condition for the amount of time that I was. I had to learn by experience the difference between what I saw as good and evil.

        I, as you are sharing, just didn’t care for what I saw in myself. Then the revelation came that although I forgave others easily and loved them In spite of themselves, I was not giving myself the same consideration, understanding, forgiveness and love that I was giving and allowing another. My love was divided. There was imbalance and I learned a great lesson and that was that I was no less a child of God than any other and for me to look at myself with a different view was one of division and not one of unity and harmony with God’s plan for us. This taught me that I could not have one view for someone else and another view for myself; for as the scriptures witness and teach : can sweet and bitter water come forth from the same fountain? It cannot so we must learn to let only one stream of water (spirit) come forth from our very being, being undivided and in a singleness of mind for God and for all others including ourselves. Then…we are truly one.

        Rachel, you asked how I see the relationship of the Spirit and soul. I will give some examples of how I came to understand the relationship of the spirit, soul and body and I will use some of the types and allegories to share this, as best I can. I understand that God is one spirit and in the old and New Testament, in the Hebrew and Greek dictionaries, God is called a single entity, the spirit being one. God created another like Himself and He called this being His Son, His firstborn. This firstborn was described as being born also in likeness to the Father in being “one” in spirit, not in soul, with the Father. Where the soul first came into the picture was when a deep sleep was placed on Adam. Adam before the fall was described as “one” with God and they were inseparable in likeness in “Spirit” for there was no separation at that time of spirit and soul. At Adam’s beginning, a vail had not been placed between the spirit and soul because a soul had not yet been given to Adam although a soul would be later placed in him at the time he was lowered into this realm of a deep sleep. Looking forward in time we see the natural tabernacle in the wilderness being built at the giving of the law by the instrumentality of Moses, which would signify the separation of spirit, soul and body and the progression from the outer court (the fleshly realm)’ the holy place (the soulish realm) and the Holiest of Holies (the spiritual realm). We move from flesh, to soul, to spirit, a natural progression. We move from our fallen state of the spirit, being given a soul as was described in the fall of Adam, as we are regenerated back to a oneness in spirit. Our natural birth into this life is our fall and our lowering just as in the type in Adam. In the fall, a deep sleep was given Adam and this was the first mention of a soul being created in man. This is because in God’s plan He had to hide His goodness from us, His future creation that we might be able to be processed. It is hard to train a child if they know that their natural father will not withhold his free gift he has for them, so as under the law they were placed under tutors and governors until the time of their adoption. Adoption under the law was when a man turned thirty and was delivered to their father completely trained in the ways of running the father’s kingdom just as the father had been doing. It is hard to train one if they know that The father’s love for them was limitless and complete “already”. We know what happens to people when they do not work and contribute to society or to their own household however expect others to do for them. So God set in motion a method of one’s proving themselves and they are rewarded accordingly. Some make sacrifices for others while some wait for others to make sacrifices for them. This is a great sorting process, some 30, some 60, and some 100 fold.

        So…Adam was divided, in himself, given a lowered dimension of himself, a soul. This soul was put behind a vail, behind a curtain of flesh so to speak as the curtain in the tabernacle that was to come later at the institution of the law by Moses. The first actual, true tabernacle, compartmentalized into three areas of spirit, soul, and body was actually Adam Himself. The natural anti type built by Moses would come later.

        When Moses was given his instructions to build the tabernacle in the wilderness he was told to not deviate in the least because this tabernacle represented much more than a natural building, he was told it represented something that existed already, in the spirit world, and this tabernacle represented Adam’s new found condition of moving from only being one in spirit to now being spirit, soul and body. God Gave us the anti type of the tabernacle built in the wilderness by Moses to not only understand how Adam was made, but to understand the makeup of all mankind that was to come after the fall of Adam into the terrestrial realm.

        In the example of how we are made, the tabernacle came into existence as Moses was instructed to make it complete in every way, it contained the Most holy place, the holy place, and the outer court. Thus respectively it represented spirit, soul, and body. The most holy place was in the upper portion of the temple, it was elevated “above” the holy place which represents the soul just as the holy place was elevated above the outer court which represents the body, thus showing the natural progression of the temple so we can better understand the true spiritual temple. The true temple is us and our natural progression is from the outer court of the world through our feminine soul (the weaker part) and ultimately to be found in the presence of the spirit in the Holiest of Holies or where God dwells…in us. Remember the vail was rent at the crucifixion of Christ making a way into the holiest of Holies from the place of the soul, or Holy Place. This was and is to be a marriage of the weaker soul to the stronger spirit… A oneness could now again take place as the stronger spirit has wooed His bride which is our soul back to Him. In the time of our betrothal to Christ we, our soul is being prepared for a wedding of the spirit and soul to take place. We are in that preparation here on earth.

        There was no need of the candlesticks being placed in the most holy place of the outward tabernacle for God inhabited the most Holy Place and did not need any natural light as was found in the holy place or in the “soul place”, for the holiest of Holies was where God dwelt and He is the true light, lit up with His own presence. In the true tabernacle in which we are, God dwells behind the veil. He was not and is not outside of the tabernacle, not in the natural one nor in the spiritual one, “in us”. The seven golden candlesticks in the Holy Place were made of one piece of beaten gold, representing the seven (or perfect) lights in the soul which make up the total spirit of God. The soul compartment is given light by the candlesticks whereby we grow toward the spirit in the holiest of Holies on the other side of the vail. Remember it was the vail that was rent making a way into the presence of God in the most holy place and not the other way around. We, our soul moves toward the spirit as depicted in these allegories, no where is it represented other than the soul being married to the spirit after it is processed. The Shulamite woman in the Song of Solomon (she represented our soul) looked for whom her soul loved, and this one she sought was Christ. “She” or our soul looked for the one that she loved and could make her (our soul) complete for it is always the spirit who completes the soul and not the other way around. Women (feminine part of us) in scripture depicts the soul and men (masculine part of us) depict the spirit. This is only in type for we are all the same in God’s eyes. Whatever gender we may be in the natural, we all have a spirit, soul and body. It says there is neither male nor female in heaven, and once we realize our equal standing in God outside of the natural concept of men and women we see us as one. So whether we are natural male or female, God sees us equally in spirit, soul and body in reality without the natural gender being considered.

        As the spiritual place in the natural tabernacle was in the Holiest of Holies behind the vail, it represented where God dwelt. We also have this Holiest of Holies within ourselves, the true tabernacle, where God is constant and dwells, but as in the natural tabernacle, He was hid behind the fallen condition of the soul, the weaker part of us as also depicted by the woman or the weaker sex. And then there is the body, the outer court where all the influences of the flesh go on, as the five senses of our human body influence what happens in the soul. It is the soul that sins and is influenced by the five senses of the body. The spirit in the tabernacle behind the vail did not and could not sin because the spirit was God Himself. The scriptures always warns of the soul sinning, not the spirit. This is because God’s spirit cannot sin, whether in the natural tabernacle or in the true tabernacle which is in us. You see the spirit of God that resides in us, the true tabernacle, behind the vail cannot and has never sinned, but again, it is the soul that sins…and dies. The spirit remains the same and forever.

        The shewbread that was located in the holy place of the soul was eaten daily just as we are instructed to take in Christ daily as He is our daily bread. This growth happens in the holy place, our soul, not in the spirit realm which the next compartment symbolized. Our prayers go up from our fallen condition in and of the soul and our prayers are represented by the laver of incense in the holy place right before the curtain dividing the two compartments, again, our soul and spirit. God instructed what exact ingredients would be used to make up the incense and these could not be deviated from. This produced a sweet smelling savor unto The Lord. This laver of incense represents our prayers being offered up and our “spiritual” ingredients are also specified and to please God in our prayers we must not deviate from the correct spiritual desire for it is, “not my will but thine be done.” We offer up the ingredients of the beatitudes where we sincerely forgive and do not add any leaven of unforgiveness, we love all and do not leave anyone out of our prayers,

        All this happens in our soul for the fallen soul after it’s regenerative processing will be regenerated back to the spirit of God that is within us “hidden” behind our fleshly vail. Recognizing that He has never been outside of us since our creation, as some suppose, we know where to look for Him and that is within. The natural tabernacle that God instructed Moses to build is a complete and wonderful example of our true spirit, soul and body housed in reality. So…as our soul seeks whom “our soul” loves, as the Shulamite woman looked for the one to be united with, our soul also looks for Christ and His anointing until we become one again. No fallen soul for it has been reunited to a oneness in the spirit.

        Our Father is El Shaddai, male and female, He is all. As the soul was lowered or taken out of the spirit (Adam’s allegorical rib) God gave us a slightly lower position of being given a regenerative soul in which it will again be swallowed up of the spirit which is of God, making us whole and complete again. You could say allegorically, God has a soul since He is male and female and all creation including the soul comes from Him but in His oneness and completeness we see Him as one, in spirit, just as we will again, one day, be one again, when our woman, our soul is again one with the spirit. Our soul will have learned her lesson of playing the harlot, of haven given in to the five senses of the serpent nature “in our garden” instead of obeying her husband which is Christ, and then she will decide that the best thing to do is to mind her husband, which is Christ, in all things.

        All things come from and are created from the one single entity or spirit of God, this is who we refer to as “one spirit” and all created things are but part of the whole, including our soul.

        I hope this helps.

        In summary

        Rachel, as we both know and understand it is our love of the oneness we find in a mutual relationship with God that bonds us together and it is not from agreeing about a certain perspective, knowledge or doctrine. As good as it is to see and agree alike we know there is a greater bond than knowing and seeing alike. This greater understanding that we have and the deep abiding respect that we have for the other trumps any personal perspectives. We know that our temporary perspectives and differences of opinions will come together in time as we grow in The Lord.

        When we truly see Him as He is, we as He learn to take no faults into account. Our differences pail in comparison to the greater truth we know.

  5. Explain how you look
    deep within yourself?
    When you look deep within
    yourself, do you find the New Testament
    there, because, this is the origin of
    the teachings of Jesus Christ?

    I here you talk about temple and spirit,
    your spirit, but I don’t hear you confirming
    your belief in God’s Word, the New Testament,
    which is the origin for the teachings of spirit,
    and temple.
    So, the rest of the New Testament would
    correctly be understood to be God’s Word,
    as well?
    Is this correct? How do you see that?

    And explain what you
    see~ the ‘true path’ as being?
    Are you referring to the Apostle’s
    doctrine?
    Or is this ‘true path’ a doctrine, a teaching,
    to be followed, or simply a path of
    spirit progression that is elsewise
    undescribed, and unprescribed?
    How do you see that path as unfolding?
    If all people are on this path,
    then they would have to identify with
    you, or with someone else, even though
    these realities might be poles apart.
    So is that a unified teaching of reality,
    or an attitude, a state of pleasureable
    feeling? Or is that an obedience to God,
    and His prescribed order through teaching?
    How do you see that?

    Is Christ’s teaching in the Apostles,
    a stumbling block for you,
    or is this your understanding of God’s
    teaching to His Church, meaning His body?
    The body of believers.
    So that would not include other religious
    beliefs or understandings, because,
    these necessarily by that teaching,
    deny other religious beliefs as being true.
    How do you see that?

    What are you shifting into?
    Are you shifting into what the
    Lord, has already told us in His
    Word, or what are you shifting into?

    What does doctrine mean to you?
    How is that defined?
    Is doctrine good or evil?
    Does God use doctrine to teach us?

    If you are taught in your true being,
    how do you know when this teaching
    is from God, or from another spirit,
    possibly a fallen Angel, or some other
    spirit?

    If you are going back to the spirit
    from which you came,
    where is that? Are you going to
    continue viewing this shifting,
    or are you going to find this
    shifting, in the New Testament,
    where you can measure your progress?
    God’s written Word.
    How will you identify this shifting
    as being related to God?

    Are you starting a new Church
    based on the doctrines you have
    stated here,
    and do you believe these doctrines
    are the teachings of Jesus Christ,
    as Christian’s believe them, and are
    written by Christian Apostles in the
    Bible,
    or are these doctrines, and teachings
    you have stated yours and yours alone,
    or you find other people that seem to
    identify with them,
    then you find that this is their proof,
    and that becomes a new Church,
    or new Creed or Faction? How do
    you see that?

    Is Everyone, and Everyman to come into
    these revelations from their ‘new temple’
    without the New Testament?
    Or do we need the New Testament to
    confirm, God’s dealings with our heart?

    Will God’s Holy Spirit acknowledge
    teachings, not in the New Testament?
    Or is the New Testament, what the
    Holy Spirit honors and testifies to?

    Where do we find the teachings,
    and attributes of Satan, and how does
    God warn us about that?
    In the New Testament?

    Does God have a prescribed order,
    if so, is that, written down somewhere,
    so that we know when we are in truth,
    or is that a coming forth from your spirit,
    according to ‘how you’ understand it?
    How will you know when you have arrived
    at a greater truth?
    Other people will confirm this to you,
    and agree with you?
    Or, the Holy Spirit through the Bible will
    do this?
    How do you see this?

    (these are just questions that are
    relevant to be asked, when viewing
    or looking at spiritual subject matter)
    (the viewing, is looking, from something,
    to something)
    (this is not a critique of your views)
    (but it is relevant, to reality in, perspective)
    (there is God’s perspective, and our
    perspective)
    (these should come together)
    (Jesus, should be the center piece)

  6. The Old Testament is the old covenant and the New Testament is the new covenant. The old is outward and ritualistic, the new is Christ in the spirit. One cannot address Christ without addressing the New Testament for Christ is the New Testament in reality. The old tabernacle was outward in the Old Testament, the new tabernacle is within in the New Testament or in Christ.

    We all know who we are by our relationship to Christ. It is not to be proved for if it could be proved by natural site or by natural words Christ would not have been crucified. Although He spoke and lived the truth the religious people of His day did not believe His words as pure as they were. The Pharisees always asked for outward signs and proof from Christ. If Christ was not believed, being the Son of God, and could not prove how He knew what He did, I doubt there is another that can convince another of the spirit that dwells within themselves and leads them from night to day. Therefore our relationship is a personal one with our Father and it need not to be proved to another for we stand or fall to God, therefore not to another.

    One should feel absolutely no compulsion to have one believe as they do for they cannot believe as another does unless the very same things are revealed to them as has been shown to them. One’s calling and order may be different to another so we should be careful with how we question another according to their views as we will stand in judgement ourselves as we judge another.

    Again, where do any of us get “our views?” Where do we get our understanding? We can ask this question to a thousand people and we either believe or disbelieve their answers according to our witness within, or the depth of our understanding. Many will not believe or accept the answers of another nor should they unless where they are in their journey line up with the views of another. We have is what we have, we’ve been given what we’ve been given and what is withheld from us is according to the Father’s will for each according to their ability.

    There was no way that Christ could give an answer that the Pharisees that they would accept for their minds were made up, after all they proved Christ “wrong” in their own self righteousness and because they did not accept His answers and desired the recognition that He was getting for themselves, they killed Him. Many in our day do not accept and respect the answers of another and they too step over the line as the Pharisees and although they do not naturally kill they do so with the choice of their words as witnessed to in the New Testament. We can commit spiritual murder according to the word by the choice of words we use to another. They kill and maim when they do not give life and light.

    We cannot give the spirit to another by using law, it is impossible, so even if we explained all the mysteries and allegories in the bible, the written letter, without the spirit of God within us, nothing is revealed. Only by pursuing the two great commandments will anything be given. Again, the five foolish had knowledge and words to give, but the five wise sought the very love of God absent the desire for knowledge but the knowledge came as a result of pursuing “truth” which is the very substance and spirit of who God and Christ is.

    As we each stand or fall to our Father, we only need to ask Him all of our questions because in asking another we may not get the answer that will lead to Him. So…we must not ask another person to lead us the the truth for they too are fallible and on this journey. By asking and receiving from the one who we are to ask and receive from, we will not be found lacking if we ask according to a his will.

    It is ok to ask or share our views with another but it is not they that give our increase, it is God. As we read or listen to another, we should take it or leave it without overstepping respectful behavior of ridiculing another regardless of their abundance or their lack.

    Many of us have a deep and respectful love for another, not because we see knowledge alike but because we have moved beyond the letter and the natural. We see others as children of God as we see ourselves, however we see others in various stages of maturity. We learn to love not only those who agree and see as we do but also those who immaturely condemn others. We do not have this right to condemn although some take this “self” right thinking since they read the bible and go to “church” they can speak judgmental words because they do things in an outward fashion never realizing the New Testament is an inward journey where the Old Testament was (and still is to some) an outward journey so let us leave the law of ritual and worshipping in an outward building by and let us move and have our being within the true tabernacle where we can speak and relate to God in the Holiest place of all, in us, spirit to spirit.

    • All of that is fine and wonderful.
      But you didn’t say what you believe.

      My questions are asked around,
      what you personally believe.

      Your description here is what the
      Pharisees, believed, what others
      believe, how other’s are in error,
      what history has proved, how
      other people misunderstood Christ.

      All of my questions were specific,
      and they only have to do with what
      you believe.

  7. Your question is perplexing so I reread what I wrote. In all of my writing it should be explanatory for what I write is what I believe. The bible is an example of what we should and should not be doing. When we read the bible and the words describe a condition in us, they are a “witness” to the “Truth” and this light condemns darkness as it should. Is it a negative thing that the truth condemns the darkness within us by pointing it out? If we look at the law properly it reveals sin in our life, God asks that we acknowledge our sin as we see it “in ourselves”, and since we cannot remove it ourselves we are asked to pray that it be removed from us by the Father through Christ.

    So, as Paul described, the law of sin has it’s place in that it reveals sin, so that the spirit can take it away. We are born into sin, condemned at birth, imprisoned in the flesh for awhile so that the new creation man could be developed in us. Being condemned at birth there is no need to keep condemning one to hell because we’re there in this physical and mindful condition. Hell is being apart from God in our earthly condition as Heaven is being with God, in our spiritual condition. We have been temporarily set apart from God for a little while, while we are disciplined, corrected and set aright in spirit, soul, and body. Thus the purpose for the journey of our soul.

    When Christ said He came not to condemn the world, but to give life He understood we were already condemned at birth ( by His own doing) so there was no further need to perpetuate the condemning part of the journey, but now in this life, His whole purpose was to “release” us and deliver us from this “once” given condemnation.

    We need to “see” with our understanding and not by sight how to separate and divide rightly each condition we are and have and how to render the negative ineffective according to God’s plan. It is perplexing in the natural but seeing the plan as it was intended in it’s rightful order, we for example should see that the condemning “had” it’s place in our time (at birth) as does deliverance from it has it’s time. If we understand we are gradually from birth being delivered from our being condemned, we see that there is no need to keep condemning but instead look for our deliverance from this condemnation. We should look for our deliverance for ourselves as well as we should look for it for others as well. People who keep judging and condemning have not been enlightened to these truths of deliverance and the right sequence and methods so in reality they keep criticizing when they should be delivering.

    People who do these things, although they think they do God a service by continually pointing out fault are in reality judging themselves by the judgement they give. There is a fine line between helping and hindering and it is one of the intent of one’s heart. Was Christ’s intent one of condemnation when He used a whip to scourge the natural temple of the money changers or did He see they were condemned already by their actions and His intent was to cleanse the temple. There is much to be said in the spiritual temple which we are and Christ does come into our temple where we are condemned already only to cleanse our temple. So if we look at the natural occurrences in the scriptures and apply the spiritual anti type, is it not a good thing? Correction is not something any of us enjoy for the moment but when God has done His work “in us” through His Son, the deliverance from condemnation although painful in the moment is glorious in our outcome.

    There are many messages in the bible, both negative and positive, and it is how we see them and apply them that makes one’s walk straight and narrow. The disciples learned this straight and narrow walk through the things they suffered as Christ but as Christ said, woe to them who cause the suffering. (When they should be delivering.) Christ, as well as the disciples were teachers, exhorting one another in being delivered from the wiles of the flesh. When the disciples confronted those who were trying to lead ones in the church astray they were often accused of being negative themselves because of the negativity they had to deal with as it was dished up to them by these condemning spirits. Their words ( fruit) revealed that it was not deliverance these others had in mind but was to further bind them to their own undelivered darkness. These adversaries sought comfort in numbers by recruiting more people like themselves, condemners, not deliveries.

    So we should believe in being delivered from condemnation, not perpetuating it. We, being given light should reflect this light to others as well as we can. It is not, as Paul explained, a path without stumbling and error but we go on picking ourselves up and others as we are given the ability. We do not condemn in our intent but give examples of the wrong path so that one may take the right one. As Paul did not seek out those who confronted and condemned him, he however when they confronted and criticized him, he did address and answer his accusers appropriately. Of course they didn’t buy a word if it and continued to criticize, maim and kill in word. Paul understood them very well because He just shortly before this was the one criticizing, maiming and killing those he was now one of, proving there is hope of deliverance for all of us in our present condition.

    I see it a difficult thing to tell someone what another truly believes using only words because it is not a believing in the outward sense but it is a believing in “being” which is an inward condition. There is no way to really explain the truth, for it is substantive and it must be lived and reciting law is not living it, as remaining under outward words is remaining under the curse. Partaking of the living word is spirit, which is the anointing that can only come by participating in the love of God.

    It is the spirit that will deliver us from this condemnation. Words can kill or they can give life. Let us choose life.

    • I never commented or made
      any statements about condemnation.

      The New Testament is what the
      Holy Spirit bears witness to, and honors,
      as far as answered prayer, and following
      the Holy Spirit.
      The Gospels of Jesus are about how to
      receive from God, and walk with him,
      because, there is an adversary.

      The Word says, Satan goeth about
      as a roaring Lion, seeking whom he
      may devour.

      The adversary is not men, or men of
      the law, but the devil.

      In the New Testament there are many
      other doctrines, not about, following law,
      but about living.
      The doctrine, of salvation, the doctrine of
      eternal punishment, the doctrine of laying
      on of hands, doctrines of leadership,
      doctrines on how to receive miracles.
      God has a divine order, and you must
      go through gates of knowledge in order
      to receive miracles, or ministry, or promotion
      in your life.
      These come through doctrines of obedience,
      to divine authority, not law.
      But there are, laws involved, because Jesus
      said, until Heaven and Earth pass away,
      not one Jot or Title of the Law shall pass away.
      Jesus, came to fulfill the law, but to receive from
      Him there is more involved, than just a denial
      of law, there are spiritual laws that must be
      followed.
      So the Gospel has nothing to do with, condemnation
      at all, it’s about reconciliation to God, and He
      has order and protocol.
      Believers do not live “unto themselves without law”.
      They are not under “The Law”.
      So your comments about some subject matter,
      in the New Testament, is referencing the Jews.
      I’m not referring to that part of History.

      Jesus said, to get to Heaven and not Hell,
      You must follow His teachings,
      and if you are following His teachings,
      you’re not living in sin,
      thus you are not breaking the Law,
      because you are, fulfilling it, by your
      Godly lifestyle.

      So, there are consequences to sin.
      The wages of sin is death.
      So, to walk in this realm, or live in sin,
      no one is condemning, but one is
      condemning themselves.

      To not attend Church, pay tithes, or
      love fellow believers, including Pastor’s,
      is disobedience to God.
      It is sin, and will include the consequences
      of sin.
      In this area, the person is condemning
      themselves by disobedience.
      They, are the ones who will break their
      relationship to God, by disobedience to
      Christ’s teachings, because He is the leader
      of the Church, and He is the Judge.
      But His Judgement of mercy, only covers
      someone, when they are “in obedience” to God.
      That obedience is to “The Gospel” ie, the
      New Testament.
      Paul actually turned people over to Satan,
      for disobeying the Gospel, by fornication,
      and sin. So yes, there are laws to follow.
      No one is judging someone, for not walking in them
      but Jesus, turns one over to Satan, for
      disobedience to God’s truths,
      which is the Gospel’s message.

      There is ‘order’ of obedience in the Church,
      and that order is not law, but it includes
      obedience, to Holiness.

      Condemnation is brought about by sin.
      Not people.

      Jesus said, I will give you another comforter,
      and He (the Holy Spirit) will convict,
      the world of Sin.
      Sin is walking without law.
      And it includes the Law, because the Law,
      was given by God, not Satan.
      The Law is Holy and just and good.
      But you are not judged by the Law,
      but you are judged for Holiness in Christ by
      law, which is the law of forgiveness.

      If you go back into sin, you go back under
      the Law, because Christ’s blood will
      not cover you there.

      There is nothing in the New Testament that
      infers, that one may live as they please,
      without comment.
      Those who live righteously, come to the light,
      not hide from the light.
      Jesus said, don’t judge.
      If you sin, No one has to judge you.
      The Bible, New Testament, says if
      you sin, you Judge the Law.
      It also, says that the Law is Righteous.
      So, if you live righteously, your living by
      the law, your just not being Judged by it.
      Your judgement is coming from Jesus,
      and He judges you by the Gospel,
      not by what your spirit leads you or tells you.

      Your spirit should lead you to be in line
      with the New Testament.

      I didn’t mean to get off that far into the
      subject, but it seems the Lord is leading
      me there.
      These are comments I felt led to share
      to keep things in perspective.
      I’m not trying to directly counter your statements.
      Just sharing.
      Lastly, people who are Christians,
      they are all called to follow these edicts and
      examples.
      You can have your own thoughts, but mostly
      your lifestyle, and understanding should all
      follow the same lines of understanding,
      because this is not a ‘follow your spirit as you
      see fit’, type of teaching.
      That would be a different Gospel,
      not from Jesus. That would be a cult.
      Because one would be their own, leader.
      Following their own ability to understand,
      through themselves.
      The New Testament, teaches following
      Jesus Words and the Apostles words,
      by obedience to and following Jesus Spirit.
      And the Holy Spirit is living,
      not just ‘the spirit of the thing’,
      ‘how I feel about it’, but a Living Spirit.
      So the Holy Spirit wrote the New Testament.

      The Gospel, is for all of us to understand
      the same way. So for one who may be hearing,
      or see differently, that should be a sign to
      rethink, and examine what they are believing.
      Not a sign of judging.
      It is self judging that you are after to obtain,
      in order to be correct, but you have to know
      the New Testament, to know how to judge
      yourself, and you have to have the Holy Spirit,
      so you do not judge yourself falsely either
      good, or bad.
      So other believers are not condemning any
      one, but for instance to say that meeting
      in a building is against the Bible or goes
      against spiritual teaching is incorrect.
      The correct teaching is that the Holy Spirit
      is ‘in you’ as the temple,
      but that in no way infers that meeting in
      a temple is a misunderstanding or uscriptural
      form of worship, or is something that
      God has done away with.
      As a matter of fact, God is omnipresent so
      His presence is in the building anyway.
      This teaching was simply given as the
      framework, to let people know that, His Spirit
      was coming to live ‘in them’.
      It was never given as a teaching to comment
      on buildings.
      God is omnipresent.
      So God would have to leave the building.
      You know, Elvis has left the building,
      but God hasn’t.

      So the New Testament and others believers
      help us to keep these things in context,
      so we don’t go off on strange and untrue
      tangents, that we have created from our
      own judgements and imaginations,
      that were never in God’s Word in the first
      place, and were never His intended emphasis
      of meaning.

      These things can lead people completely
      into a ditch. God doesn’t want His people
      confused and in a ditch.
      His intent is to increase their understanding
      of Him, so they can fellowship together.
      You have to have a building to fellowship,
      and worship, as far as a meeting is concerned.
      But everyone there will have the Spirit in
      their heart.
      So even a comment about buildings is incorrect,
      the subject is about the Spirit being in your heart.
      But that Spirit, has to be given to you,
      it’s not there automatically. Another NT teaching.

      It’s self judging, but you may have to get
      the correct teaching for one to know.
      For instance, if one is fornicating, or stealing,
      then they may have to be taught, that this is
      sin, and has consequences.
      They may not, know that.
      So that is not teaching them, law,
      but yes it’s ‘in’ the Law, the Ten Commandments.
      That type of sin continued will sever
      your relationship with God.
      You cannot walk in open disobedience to
      God, and claim His acceptance, or that
      ‘your free from law’.
      Your free from being judged by the law.

      These statements I am making are just
      various things of understanding from
      the New Testament that I am sharing.
      I’m not countering your statements.
      Just bringing perspective as I was led.

      None of these statements have anything
      to do with the subject of condemnation.
      They have to do with the requirements
      for living in line with Gospel Holiness,
      and purity, and the spirit of righteousness.

      The Word says, without holiness no man
      shall see God.

  8. Your absolutely right, there is nothing wrong in meeting in buildings, I do. And as you say which is my very point, God is omnipresent so He is in the true temple 24/7 so let us not as so many, wait for a particular time on a particular day to worship. Since “He” is omnipresent 24/7 we should worship Him without division 24/7.

    I comment about “buildings” because this subject of inward and outward temples is mentioned numerous times in scripture. I mention this because most people see God as not residing in His true temple which we are but wait for an occasion or a particular day to go to a building where He does not reside. This is very important for people to understand, very important.

    All that I teach is about bringing all things to a spiritual understanding. I am not confused, mislead, or in darkness although I am misunderstood by many and this does not bother me for I did not see as I now see at one time. So having been through much darkness, I do not criticize those who are still bound by the flesh or do not see as I. I know my condition, I am what I am by the grace of God, and “I” believe all that “I” have been shown. Is it all there is? No, but I do and believe what has been given me and I do not criticize another for what God has shown to them, or for that matter “not” shown to another, I pray for all, saint and sinner and I pray as God has taught me to pray, for those who make me their enemy, I now forgive them easily as I once found hard to do and I hope the best for them. This I do with little effort for it is my thought for them; “That if not for the grace of God there go I.”

    Many think that since the scriptures are hard to understand they think everyone else is just as blind for who can know what they cannot? Many of us may be blind to many things in scripture but the important things of love and forgiveness of others is an easy thing to understand, this is why I say we should put little faith in words of little value and seek to know the true “Word” which is Christ Himself.

    When I write or speak about differences in law and spirit it is not to condemn anyone about how any one person may individually believe but to point out the error of following what God instructs us to do and not to do. For example it was not I that called the false church a harlot but God Himself. All any can do is point one toward the love of God by showing them where the true church or temple is, in the hopes one may be spared of years of worshipping a “building” as religions do today. These are generalities that apply to us all, that God Himself is pointing out.

    It is not my way, my method nor it is my intention to speak personally to anyone about the law or disagree in a criticizing manner regardless of their views. What another believes has nothing to do with “my” relationship with God. It matters not one whit to me what another believes, I am not offended. I do not, however, like it when one voluntarily tries to raise themselves up by putting another down because they see differently.

    This is when I for example speak plainly to those who choose to go down this condescending path, thinking their knowledge is so superior to another’s that this gives them the right and permission by God to ridicule another. In these situations we should be proving our patience, forgiveness, long suffering, etc, etc, not perpetuating a false sense of righteousness.

    I do not usually speak one on one to another unless they specifically ask, as you are doing, and I do not continue in a one on one dialogue except in the most respectful of circumstances. There is so much beyond the letter that few understand nor want to understand for it takes great sacrifice to go there. It is not a sacrifice of earthly possessions as some may suppose but it is a sacrifice of things of self in our carnally minded self. When we sacrifice all to win Christ in our very being it is that we have given up all that is of the ego, of pride, and every other emotion of the fleshly and human mind. When we have made these sacrifices all that remains…is…His likeness.

    When I speak or write, I really am speaking to myself and about myself and my experiences, it is a sharing of where my path has been and where I am going. It is here for you to either gain from or reject. We share our understanding and views, not to cross, but to have hope for another.

    • God gives people permission to share
      his Word in whatever capacity He has
      called them and commissioned them.
      There is no condescending path in
      God’s Word or in His people.
      There is greater, and lesser knowledge,
      and people have not only a right but
      a command from Jesus to be interested
      in others, and to share from their level
      of understanding, high or low.
      Neither is a negative, or a put down,
      or of lesser value, in a conversation.
      If one is mature, there would never be
      a feeling of insecurity connected with
      anyone sharing their knowledge.

      God is able to take, anyone’s failures
      in a conversation stemming from fleshly
      weakness, and turn that into a blessing.
      People including you should not feel
      inhibited in listening to another’s knowledge
      or, their story, or what the Lord would have
      them share, and it should never be a one
      way street.
      When you say you only share when someone
      asks, I don’t think you should limit God here.
      God will speak to you in different ways,
      and he is not out to hurt any of us.
      Allow him to speak in his own way,
      at His choosing, without demands.
      Understanding that He is Love.

      It seems the Lord has been showing me
      that you have been wounded in your
      walk with Him concerning Church.
      I don’t sense, or get the feeling that your
      ideas about Church, and of gathering together,
      in Church,
      or your ideas of the Temple, come from revelation,
      but from your wounded heart, from the
      way you have been treated in Churches
      or by people, possibly who meant well,
      and you were wounded in your heart in some way,
      probably very badly.

      I feel this has led you down a path, that is
      unscriptural in the sense, not of knowledge,
      but in your emotional and spiritual heart,
      that many times, even though you have knowledge
      and a relationship with the Lord,
      this wounded spirit, has led you to an interpretation
      of God’s written Word, that allows you to remain
      isolated, from areas where God is wanting
      to speak to you.
      I feel like God is saying to you, to keep your
      heart open, because it is not His Will for you
      to remain in a place, where His Word is used
      as a battle ground to protect your heart.
      I feel he is saying to open your heart and
      allow Him to speak to you from other people,
      because it is through people that He will love
      you. Let the Word, be a place of open
      communication, and a place of sharing
      rather than, the subject matter to protect your
      heart. I feel He is saying, Let Him be the
      one to protect your Heart, that He will use
      the interconnectedness of His Word, to
      minister to you, in ways that you cannot
      minister to yourself, if you will allow others
      to be themselves and make mistakes, and
      reach into your world, then you will find that
      His people are flawed, but they are not,
      contrary to His purposes, and have the giftings,
      that will allow His Spirit to bring healing
      to many areas where you have been wounded.
      These woundings, affect the Father as well,
      for He hurts when you hurt,
      but He is not able to fully speak love to your
      heart, if you allow them to become the
      birthplace of your theology, and ideology.
      I feel He is saying, keep an open mind
      because, He is wanting to draw you to
      Himself, in greater ways than knowledge can
      say, but to do that, He is wanting the false
      judgments that were placed on you removed.
      To do this, He would like you to allow others
      to speak into your heart, and your faith will in
      allowing this, open you fully to the Love,
      that you have had to protect within yourself.
      You are having to protect your love because
      many times, your love was greater than
      others, and so you were forced to protect
      what love you had from being lost.
      But Jesus is saying, I will restore, what
      relationships you had, but interconnectedness
      is the key, rather than the battleground.
      The Lord says you know this, and that, you
      know it greater than others, but in being
      wounded, you have still learned that
      composure, is a great strength, but He is
      saying, take my Love from Me personally
      says the Lord, and Let me be your composure,
      for I know your heart, and will not denigrate
      you through my Word, but will build you,
      but in the process, in sharing through others,
      allow them to fail as well because, many
      times I am building them, through you, and
      if you allow their offenses to harm you,
      then I am unable to fully heal your heart,
      and unable to establish you among others.
      For I establish my people, among each other,
      as much as I do, to myself.
      (A word of Prophecy)

      This morning the Lord was allowing me
      to feel your woundedness, which I was
      feeling as the pain of rejection, and through
      the day, the Lord was lifting this off of you
      through prayer.
      This was not on your mind but truly in
      your heart, and He is ministering to you
      here.

  9. You have quiet an imagination and have projected quiet a philosophy about me that is ridiculous. Your words come from your own defensiveness about the mistakes you have made in addressing me as well as others.

    Furthermore, I did not say among other things, that I only share with those who ask, I said I share to all equally and if one gets specific and ask from what I write, I may address that.

    It is your own wounded nature you are feeling and defending, and protecting. I appreciate your analysis but it comes from more of the same lack of love and understanding especially in the field of respect for others and going where you have absolutely no business to go.

    You say “There is no condescending path in God’s word or His people”.

    The bible is written” to God’s people” and it is about how to conduct oneself among God’s children. There are many shades of gray as there are many shades of maturity in a child from infancy to full maturity and shades of love in a person according to “their revelation” of what God’s word means.

    If what you say above is true which it is not, what does this make you in your almost fully absorbed immature nature of seeing and looking for the fault in others? If God’s children are not condescending, are you saying you are not God’s child by your continuing condescending nature? I, however, agree that God’s matured children do not condescend so therefore those who do are children, not fully matured.

    I see you struggling for more light and I believe in time God will give it to you, however you must turn your back on your “old man” and look for the new man of the heart, in yourself as well as in others and seek to communicate with the heart and mind of Christ. There is a difference is desiring something and possessing something. We desire what we don’t have.

    You step over the line most grievously again, analyzing another when you should be analyzing your own self. And…because I answer your insulting nature with words of admonition…you get offended (as you should) but instead of taking sound advise, you turn and rend with with such incoherency and foolish statements it should leave one disgusted as one would admonish a child that just does not get it.

    Anon…you are this child. When you write you go from hot to cold, kind to mean, from good intention to spewing words of the most condescending hateful nature.

    And no I do not say these things from a wounded nature, or lack of understanding or Any ill will toward you. This I know. I say these things because I am addressing one who just does not get it!

    • This is the battleground
      that you create to protect
      your heart.
      Why do you believe you
      always become angry?

      I’m not in the battle,
      I’m outside of it.

      Loving is as loving does.
      Knowing is as knowing does.
      Lucky is as lucky does.

  10. Please excuse my typos, I didn’t edit…again.

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