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Stirring The Deep

Going through Changes

27 Comments

Going through Changes

 

Young shoot of fern close up in Big island,

space

I’m going through some changes. They are such that it makes it difficult to write because the foundation from what I write from is shifting. I’m usually very consistent in my posting, so I wanted you to know.

Author: Rachel

My passion is cultivating a deep relationship with God and helping others to do the same. I LOVE sharing with others insights that God has taught me and hearing what God has taught them... thus my blog, Stirring the Deep. My focus is on a relationship, not a religion. Life is in the relationship. I believe in a balance and unity of body, mind and spirit. I feel it's important to nurture all three for they all affect each other. I try to live in the present, where the Holy Spirit is. And I try to do all with the motive of love. I've come to believe life is a journey and not a destination. It isn't about perfection, is it about growth.

27 thoughts on “Going through Changes

  1. Im going through changes too. And I feel confused about what I learned before from God

    • Hi Ivy, I find it encouraging that others are experiencing changes. Often when we are going through changes of the soul confusion is apart of it. It’s hard to fully understand the dynamics of what is happening when you are in the middle of it. Clarity often comes afterwards. 🙂 Patience, acceptance, and faith all work together to carry us through.

  2. I am also going through some changes. I expect the best because i am doing all i have to. Just like Rachel said it, a shifting. It is a skill to be consistent, so thanks for letting us know that. When would this process finish? For mine is breathtaking.

  3. What is the name of that natural thing on the photo anyone please?

  4. Murillo, It is a baby fern, and it is called a fiddlehead. It’s certainly an image of ‘freshness & new-ness’!
    ~~~~
    I am also feeling the change. I hesitate to use the word ‘everything’ –but I am seeing ‘everything’ differently. And I find myself looking around to see who else is feeling the same. It’s such a big change that I wouldn’t really talk about it to just anyone. I will sleep like a baby tonight knowing that Rachel has mentioned this. 💗

    • Hi, I’ll add a bit of what I’m noticing in terms of “everything” 🙂 Part of what is shifting for me is perspective and when our perspective changes then it does affect everything. We see everything differently, thus respond differently. Truth, understanding, awareness, intense times of growth all alter our perspectives.

  5. Love and prayers for this season of change, Rachel.

    • Thanks Debbie. Your love and prayers are wonderfully appreciated.

    • Debbie, Rachel means immensely appreciated. I started to notice that man woman think differently, but in that case i think that was what she wanted to say. Because it is a time of not letting fear…

  6. 🎶⚽️🎶. 🐝😊. ⛄️. Enjoy the times that are not understood again. It never ends. You are in the amazing. Enjoy the blessing of what seems painful. The sine wave can be flipped. You can look at this time as a high moment. It all is. It’s all good. I know what change you are in. We have been running parallel since I have known you. Remember, As much as you know and understand you will be alone as Jesus was from the human race. You are so strong that you will get exactly what will make you stronger. When does one say enough and turn back. For me never. That’s hard. It’s only hard when you are in the painful blessing of not knowing. Patients. How else are you going to change. Again … You are loved. Don’t go away to long. There are many who are in the same place but different than you are. We are a light puzzle that fits the divine way. Cc. Contain the crazy. See ya. TraVis Stay frosty. 🙂

    Sent from my iPhone

    >

    • Hi Travis, your words are an encouragement to me and resemble what I’ve been “hearing” about how to view this period of transition. Thank you.

    • I liked the words you used at the beginning.

      What we have been talking here is about spiritual intelligence. Just don’t lose control you two. When you think you can’t make it, stop it.

      • It’s funny when you ask ask to stop. It gets quite real quick. Lol. You may ask him to strengthen you in these areas if it is where he is leading one. I have no idea where he is leading me to but it’s so awesome in the now, and when you know truly where the bad stuff comes from. It’s all good. I believe this kind of journey helps generations that are to come here. I believe Rachel’s flow (we all know where that comes from) and many others here will be long gone to the next when the effects of the puzzle The Lord is laying down now will be felt. People may feel the end is near. I truly see it myself. Or am I or we just seeing that for us now. I think what will happen first is there will be no air conditioning.LOL that will be the end of the world for many and the ones who go crazy from the ones complaining. Funny. Not funny that way> Technology plays a huge role in all of this. We are all about to see major changes. It’s all relative. I believe if we all stay true to the living word. I really don’t see many here turning back, that this is all happening again but in A way that is now. Eagles don’t flock, but I am sure we will be flying by each other and helping others in an amazing way. It’s already happening.
        this is a huge topic that is fun and I am sure we will be.. Well the fun part is not being sure and jumping off huge cliffs.
        Off topic a little. This is not toward Rachel or anyone. Just passing it thru. I find when someone wants to talk to you and one may think oh brother same old conversation or you are doing something else on the phone while they are speaking. I have witnessed many times The gift of all three. I can’t tell the difference yet. Lol. Jesus Father and the Holy Spirit will speak thru them a quick word that’s so incidental and the other person has no idea what flowed thru them for you and it doesn’t stop. It’s for you to help the other that was just needing that very thought. Just change routine in thoughts and action. I believe the father is able to really flow the river thru you without preaching but just being the joy that he is. Everyday is amazing. Most don’t know that we actually have telepathy to each other but don’t know because most have not taken the time to just share there day and truly listen with there heart. Many wouldn’t believe the parallels running thru there lives if we just loved and listened without judgement. One begins to giggle everyday. Well that’s what I heard anyways. Just saying. Sweet dreams.
        I can’t imagine Rachel’s next video. It’s the 101. She gets it when it comes. I love the auto flow. I have to stop typing. Not gonna check spell checker. Hope its good. Lol. Spell checker starts changing when one does. Hilarious.

      • Hi Travis, I’m learning to listen at this new level of which you touch upon in your comment … much of what occurs in our reality is speaking to us in some way. It’s incredible as you learn to listen at this depth and see with this awareness. There are many gifts flowing through the seemingly mundane if we have the eyes to see and the ears to hear, and then they aren’t mundane anymore.

  7. Constant change requires constant faith, trust and devotion. Our journey here is depicted by Israel’s wilderness journey. Because of their weariness of the length of time it was taking and the requirement of obedience that was was required of them they simply were not interested in completing the requirements of “crossing over” and died in the wilderness. They were simply not prepared and did not want to obey so that they could cross over into the “promised land”.

    This type is our anti type of remaining faithful to our end, not turning back to the ease of this world’s carnal ways of living. From Egypt to the promised land, it was only a few days journey, it was right there and yet it took them forty years and then only a small handful crossed over. Crossing over is a spiritual thing of walking the road put before us, not murmuring or complaining about any obstacle, but thanking God that these things are the very things that are bringing us closer to God, being brought to His exact likeness and character.

    This is the reason for our suffering as we reject what this world has to offer in appeasing our carnal self for following the leading of the spirit. When change comes our way it is usually by complexity and adversity whether of mind or physically. These things will persist if we want to stand the fire and not pray it away. Salvation is salvation, and this is for all, but where we fit into our salvation is determined by how far our Father permits us to rise through the different steps of our calling and or fold. “Some 30′ 60, and some 100. To cross over on this side of the grave is the 100 fold and as Israel, few there be that that find it or desire it to stand the heat. God is that consuming does that will burn out all the wood, hay, and stubble, all the dross, so that all that remains is Himself. How many of us will stand this burning?

    To put it candidly God will burn the hell out of us if we stand still and let him do His work, for we are His “work” manship. All then that will remain will be “His” likeness. God loves all whether they complete the full wilderness journey or not but there is a high calling in Christ Jesus and those who sacrifice their own will for His will, will…..Cross over. Let us daily take up our cross and choose His way that crosses our way, in other words submitting to His will and turning from our own.

    We all have our walk and path and although our paths may be far apart and of a different calling, all roads do lead to Him.

    We have peace and contentment in knowing God, our Father is in the details of our every day life and the winds of change will come steadily and our ship will move forward if we but continue to raise the sails…following the Son. It is but a short journey, just a few days journey just as the natural promised land ( of the spirit) was right next to Egypt, (the land of flesh), however we must be obedient and remain steadfast. Love will take us through, the love of being obedient to His desire.

  8. The love, power, the word, the truth, the gifts, the fruit of a life of righteousness all come via His Spirit – they do not come from our intellect, knowledge, our efforts, our theology, etc.

    Love does not come by our works, or from our understanding of a particular verse or verses in a particular translation. We must not fall prey to this self righteous stance that ritual and “doing” and depending on scripture to defend our position is righteousness. Death and condemnation come by the law and if we use the scripture to defend our position in being condescending to another with different interpretations we have violated God’s most sacred “law of the spirit” which is in reality no law at all for righteousness comes by faith and faith by hearing the spirit which is God Himself. Love, which is God, speaks to us spirit to spirit, not through scripture and legalism. Religion has rules of whatever rules they look for to justify their position and what they want to do.

    There is one spirit and one God but many religions and none are of God for religion is the man made part of worshiping and it is outside the way of truth which is Christ. True faith is not a religion, it is a way of life following the leading of the spirit. Pursuing faith by the love of God will not be found regardless of the bible translation one reads for there is white (spirit) between the lines in all translations and one will not be led astray from reading if their heart and devotion is toward the love of God and a genuine care for others. No written translation of the natural word can trump God and His inpouring of faith. There was no law when Abraham, through faith “believed” God. There was no New Testament for the early Christians to read. They heard and were converted through faith in hearing (spiritually) the word (Christ the anointing).

    Our views and understandings of scripture may change or increase at times but if anything we read does not bring us to understand that knowledge is not truth and truth is not knowledge, we search in vain if our pursuit is not for the simple love of God, desiring His “ways” and attributes. If our heart is fixed on becoming like Him, it is said we will be given our desires…”if” our desires line up with His will. This is key to having our prayers answered. We may understand all scriptural knowledge, meanings of the mysteries and quote the bible from end to end and still be found among the five foolish virgins for they read and searched for vain glory to attract others to self while the five wise searched for God within their own hearts through faith as Abraham and did not look for anything “outside of themselves” for approval. The wise searched for love and not the knowledge as the foolish. The foolish gave lip service to phrases of love but their heart was in the building up of self in the eyes of those around them. The wise looked for no recognition from others at all but sought God only and only His ways, leaving self recognition completely out of their devotion to seeking His will. Both had the same knowledge and looked the same on the outside, and spoke the same verbal language, the difference was one had faith in the true while one sought for others to have faith in themselves. The five wise and the five foolish.

    They, as we look for Christ to come, not in some natural clouds as some suppose, but in spiritual people as the natural clouds represent in type, as natural clouds contain water (spirit) so does God’s people who are depicted as clouds which will rain upon the earth giving their God given word to the masses. They will speak from substance while the foolish will speak from law. It will come from within not through this book or that book, this translation or that one for, again, God will fill you directly with His word as he poured His spirit into the 120 in the upper room. It did not come from understanding the old law as many, afterward, were Gentiles that had never heard the law but received life from simply hearing and believing through faith. Let our hearts remain fixed on Christ and the sands of change in doctrinal beliefs will come and go. Our pursuit of the very likeness and character of God is another thing, a steadfast and permanent thing. We should not let our knowledge of certain beliefs sidetrack our direct faith in Him for if it does we fall into legalism and question our faith based on a belief that in the long run will add nothing to our faith and the pursuit of our Father’s likeness and character.

    There is no stronger message than that of becoming as He is, this is something we cannot quote, it is something we are and for one to have true light and true understanding on the matter they must posses this light and this light is none other than the very nature of God coming to us through Christ, our personal anointing. Search the scriptures and in them you think you have life but what is found by those who would try to climb up “this other way” has found legalism, a substitute for the spirit.

    Let us pursue and ask God for His substance, sacrificing all other ways of climbing, and He will give us His very spirit. Once this happens, as Paul told the Galatians, let us not turn again to the weak and beggarly elements of the world founded in the “law” which is not of grace nor of faith.

    It is my conviction that one could by faith obtain all that there is, just as Abraham, without resorting to the legalism of “climbing up some other way.” Having said this, I myself spend numerous hours searching, and studying the scriptures, both old and new, however I know that I will not find the love of God in them for they are mere shadows of the true. If we study, we equip ourselves that we may give an answer to the legalistic ones who believe their righteousness will come by the law. The law brings awareness of death and condemnation while the spirit brings life. There is “NO” spirit in the written word only in the spiritual word which is Christ.

    Paul suffered many shipwrecks which depicted our shifting winds of change in stormy waters. The foaming sea represents the unsettled masses of people around us and they can become as a raging sea of discontent in our life and would have you to join them in their temple made with hands but we must remain on the outside of the natural and worship in our personal temple in which we are. Christ walked above the raging sea of humanity as Peter attempted to but Peter was too attached to the sea of humanity within him at the time to stay above the turmoil, however in time Peter, as Christ walked above the discontented waters.

    Let not our knowledge define us as it may change from time to time but let us be defined by being steadfast in the pursuit of the love of God, which He is in substance, which in time is to become our substance.It is His promise to “all”.

    • Hi Sonny,

      Thank you for sharing what you have learned upon your journey. It speaks of many observations & experiences that I too have come across along my spiritual sojourning, ones that continue to grow and expand … and above all is the deepening hunger and thirst to be of our Father’s likeness in every way, which in sum is the beautiful reflection of his divine love. My desire to be a reflection of our Father has never been stronger. And if desire is our main creative force, and he has crafted mine for him in great degrees, then I am truly thankful.

      Truly as we sojourn this spiritual path, we are stripped of every foundation, every belief, every aspect of value that the world system attributes value to until we are left with only what our Father has worked in us.

      It does take patience, persistence, faith and much prayer to continue unto the end. But the beautiful truths we’ve gained provide such an amazing vision that there is no other desire but to continue forward and into the promised oneness with our Father.

      All we truly have is desire, and He does all the workmanship. He purifies our desires and aligns them with his, so even He does this for us. Truly he is the potter and we are the clay. But because love is voluntary, it is our desire (an aspect of “free” will) that leads the way along the path until we are one with him as a child reflective of our Father’s nature.

      May those who hunger and thirst for righteousness (expressions of divine love of the consciousness of our Father) be filled and overflowing to all around them.

  9. Yes, and let me add our growth in His love is by what we do in obedience to that which precedes our new growth, else we become stagnate. To get through one trial can leave one weary and many just do not want to go further so they find a comfortable religion and operate within a plateau. To go on, a willingness to step into further burnings must be our hearts desire for God is a consuming fire and we repeatedly go from burning to burning until the very last crumb of self is consumed. Therefore we thank our Father for giving us of His will to continue on increasing in His love for all that He is in character we will become. It is His will for our will to grow to become His. It’s all a gift and gifts are given when we care and love another. God gives an increase of His gift out of a love for us according to our obedience to Him. We increase in love as we increase in steadfast obedience.

    “By what measurement you meet will be measured to you again.” We gain our measurement of God’s substance by what we have accomplished by being obedient to that preceding our new measured portion. We gain in His substance little by little, measurement by measurement by willingly “staying put” and letting him do “His work” in us. We must stand still by giving up our works so that He may do His. Often times our activity, although well in meaning, gets in our Father’s way of building us, thus the admonition to be still. To love, requires no works, it is by faith. We then by having obtained His love, do things out of this love. In other words we do not do carnal works to find love, we do righteous things from having love. This love comes by obedience to His will.

    We are constantly being tweaked. Let us not condemn that which He allows. What he allows is all of our fallen carnal natural state of being, so be benevolent to all including ourselves for we all will be delivered from ourselves. It will happen as our Father in heaven planned before we were ever given a fallen state of mind, before our natural birth. God loved us before the fall, and through the fall we will gain a double portion as Job. There is good in trials, test and suffering and thank God it is for a short duration. May we see the good in all things for God only created evil so that His “good” gifts could be amplified.

    We should find rest in knowing that nothing will befall us outside of the will of our Father as all things lead to the consummation of all things and all things will consummate in Him when “every knee” shall bow to His will. This is what “He” said.

    • If some, find, a comfortable religion,
      and ‘operate on a certain plateau’,
      then someone has found rest
      in knowing that something has
      befallen them outside the will of
      the Father.
      That’s leading to a consummation
      of, confusion.
      This is why God put teachers in
      the kingdom.
      Part of the reason God wrote the
      Book of Job was to prevent people
      from following the same path,
      and going through a path of error,
      as Rachel was saying in “Never Alone”,
      if you are hearing His voice you are
      hearing wisdom.
      If there is such a thing as wisdom
      and a true path,
      then there is such a thing as being
      ‘outside of the will of the Father’.
      This befalling is when one is ‘in the
      realm of darkness’, where ‘lies’ dwell.
      Take heed what you hear, and how
      you listen,
      with what measure you measure, it
      will be measured, to you.
      If what I am saying is truth,
      then I am measuring truth.
      Any other measure will lead you
      away from the Father’s will,
      and away from the teaching of Truth.
      The only Truth and the only chance
      of being in the Father’s care,
      come when you are following
      the Gospel of Jesus Christ.
      “Hence we know the Spirit of Truth,
      and the Spirit of error”, as John
      the Apostle stated in his epistle.
      This is why Jesus was manifested
      to bear witness to the Truth,
      as John stated in His epistle.
      Hence we have the Light being
      presented in the Words of Jesus
      Christ, which is referred to as
      “the Word of Truth”.
      So when we are in error, we must
      turn to the Truth~ which is in the
      Light of Jesus’ Words.
      Jesus said,
      many will say in that day, have we
      not prophesied in thy name, and
      done many wonderful works, in
      thy name, “Then will I ‘say’ unto them,
      depart from me you who practice
      LAWLESSNESS.”.
      So here Jesus is showing that to
      be in or out of the will of the Father,
      is not His responsibility but our
      responsibility.
      John said, I write these things unto
      you as a faithful witness,
      “That you be not deceived”.
      So if one is deceived, he is outside
      the will of the Father.
      No one is deceived who is walking
      in the Light.
      Are there not twelve hours in the day?
      Jesus said.
      If a man walk in the day he stumbleth
      not.
      This is referring to walking in accordance,
      with the Laws of God, through the
      complete revelation of God’s grace.
      This Light is in the Word of Jesus,
      and is the True Light, which came down
      from Heaven.
      He that believeth in Me,
      shall never know death, put has been
      translated into Life.
      He that believeth not, is condemned
      already, because He believeth not,
      the testimony of the Son of Man.
      This is condemnation, that Light came
      into the world, but because the works
      of men were evil, they believeth not
      in the Testimony of God’s Son.
      Here we see in these word’s,
      that there is a correct believing, and
      a wrong believing.
      The Devil was a liar from the beginning.
      The truth is not in him,
      nor in the children that will believe Him.
      Jesus said, woe to you Pharisees,
      how can you escape the condemnation
      of Hell?
      So, we see the difference between
      being in God’s Will, or out of His will,
      is our
      responsibility, not God’s.
      Let each one encourage another,
      according to Truth.
      There are many false prophets
      gone out into the World,
      which is the Spirit of antichrist.

      • Hi Anon,

        How I long to walk only in our Father’s will … to be an expression of his love … yet without new skins of incorruption, this remains a desire, a hunger and a thirst … a hunger and thirst for righteousness is one for his divine perfect love which is beyond ourselves to give in mortal skins of corruption.

        Yet, I do see that desire itself and the sincere prayers spoken from our hearts are in themselves catalyst for change by our Father’s hand. Desires are a creative force in our lives, our true desires. They cause us to make certain decisions, take certain acts, focus on particular areas rather than others. As our desires become aligned with our Father’s, we see change start to occur in our soul in ways that we only hoped of in the past. The change is deliberate and occurs not at our timing or efforts, but at his workmanship in us as we desire to follow as we are led by him.

        As you mentioned, grace is key. It is what carries us through until we find our home once again in him and him in us … the consummation of our salvation.

      • Meditate on this. At some point,
        and this is not a complete leaving,
        or a demarcation point, but at some
        point, one’s focus has to leave the
        realm of contemplating the future,
        into a reliance on what is within
        your heart ‘today’.

        In other words, confidence and a
        strong foundation, are built on what
        you know and not what your looking
        to know.

        So you must come to have
        confidence, that your ‘heart is right’
        and the Holy Spirit, is actively knowing
        and correcting you, through your conscience
        in those areas you mentioned.

        Of course you have to have this knowledge,
        from the spiritual truth that is
        inherent in, “being in the Lord”.
        So as we walk along and live,
        I find if one is’ ” a true believer in Jesus’,
        “we have this confidence in Him”,
        is a living statement.
        Living is today, as you have said
        before, not tomorrow.
        What I’m saying is, that at some point
        we have to leave the paranoia or
        worry, of “am I right today”.
        “Am I doing everything right”,
        “saying everything perfect”.
        You know and will, or may, recognize,
        that, there are different levels
        of emotions, and different levels of
        expression, and male and female,
        and strength, and gentleness,
        and each one of these is appropriate,
        in a different situation.
        So, to be realistic, about it, and to
        not be religious, but to just allow
        expression to come forth,
        at some point you have to trust
        what God has done ‘in you’
        “to this point”, this point of today.
        In other ways, of saying it, are that if
        what you, are saying, here is true,
        (you Rachel)
        then you can have confidence
        that the work God has done ‘in you’
        is sufficient enough to know if you
        know any thing, and know who you
        know, in God, and about God.
        I’m not referring to the Word of God,
        because we have to be educated here,
        in God’s Word.
        But in what ever we are seeking,
        it’s not~ ‘all about’ ~
        ~”tomorrow will be
        good, when I have the keys”.
        “When He works His will in my life,
        sometime next week, or next year”

        Use the keys you have today,
        and let God be responsible for the
        keys He will give you tomorrow.
        Another way of looking at this subject
        is this,
        “I already have, grace, in my heart,
        and a whole lot more than I will probably
        be able to exercise, today”.
        So the question is, do you know that?
        Or are you waiting and wondering?

        So, one of the keys is in and lies in
        recognizing the grace that
        “is being
        shown through a person”, now.

        In other words, are you receiving it
        as grace, and seeing grace
        as coming forth from someone,
        or are you seeing it as
        an offense, or seeing (strength and
        knowledge), through the eyes of
        selfconscious insecurity,
        so that it causes reticence in speech,
        rather than true humility.
        It causes fear and anxiety about
        perfection, rather that boldness
        and truth about Knowledge.
        And that being Knowledge of God.

        Yes you can have boldness about
        knowledge of God, and still have
        humility and strength, because grace
        is not weakness but strength.
        One can be bold and have humility.
        Sometimes it takes more humility
        to speak what you know,
        because you become vulnerable
        to criticism.

        But there is a place for every emotion
        and symbol, and a time to speak
        these, in their true order.
        So the question is, again, do you know
        this today, or are you having to wait
        till tomorrow?
        I’m saying, there is~ “knowing” in God~,
        but that doesn’t indicate perfection,
        from the human side,
        but the lack of perfection, doesn’t
        extinguish the fact of knowing.

        There is a point of allowing your
        emotions to dictate, if you are in grace
        or out of grace, and so forth,
        and that is a false judgment,
        and you can only have confidence
        in yourself to make this kind of
        statement, if you are knowledgeable,
        and forthright and trust the training
        and awareness that you have
        in the Lord.

        So here you will notice that a game
        can be played or is at work,
        where humility and grace, are
        being replaced in theory, in one who is
        truly unknowlegeable,
        (and is being subjugated, and discounted)
        in the form of self introspection,
        false humility, and over sensitivity
        in emotion, by one who is
        actually reticent in spirit.

        So, to graduate, forward, with God,
        to a greater place,
        you will need confidence in what
        you Are and Know, today.
        Otherwise your faith is superceded,
        by an actual mistrust in God,
        and what could be less graceful
        than that?
        What could be less honoring?

        There, in that place, your graduation,
        is from nowhere, ~to a greater ‘lack of ‘
        confidence, and knowledge,~
        and hearsay, about God.
        Yes, ‘confidence’ is existent today,
        and so is knowledge.
        And knowledge of confidence, is
        existent “today”.
        So, when I say~ “I Know”~ or am
        confident about this” “in the Lord”,
        then that is either true, or not true.
        It’s not something, I graduate to.
        But it’s something I graduated
        from yesterday.
        And then as it applies to grace,
        let’s say that I make a mistake in
        speech, and say something very
        ungraceful, or seemingly unkind.
        ~Well, there is always ‘grace from
        your side’, where ‘you’ ‘can say’
        ,
        ~I overlook that, I forgive that,!!

        So, if you analyze that, you will
        see,~ that the game of grace, is
        to be played from both sides on
        a continual basis, back and forth,
        and the true essence of it, is not,
        to become perfect, but to arrive at
        knowledge.

        I don’t see the game of grace
        as always to be played for oneself
        alone, to arrive at perfection, as
        seems to be expressed in your
        statement.
        In other words, sometimes it should
        be stated, that~ sometimes~,
        and many times~, and most of the
        time~ that,~
        ((~you make up for my faults
        ~and I make up for your faults)).

        Under this estimation of grace, we
        can always be natural with each
        other, and express our thoughts
        or knowledge, without fear, or
        scrutinization from another party,
        as to some unknown realm of
        sanctity, that every one, is always
        waiting to achieve.
        I see this in Jesus statement where
        He said, Take heed what you hear,
        in what measure you measure it
        will be measured unto you.
        This applies to knowledge, because
        His statement is a statement about
        truth, ~which is knowledge~.

        So when you are measuring perfection
        or critiquing, or listening,
        if you judge another falsely,
        then the error is on your side,
        not on my side ( I say that generically).

        So here again, it shows that grace
        is not a static issue, but it is in flux.
        It’s not a mountain, or a place that
        you necessarily arrive at.

        In fact, as irreligious as it may seem,
        if you “overdo” grace, you create a
        false environment, and a false reality,
        because, again, the ‘truth is’~ that it
        is always “in flux”.

    • Hi Sonny,

      Here are some thoughts that came to mind as I read your words .. as always thanks for sharing …

      God is a consuming fire. God is love. The fire of his spirit is love. So beautifully stated.

      It’s his love that changes us for in it we see the perfections and joys and eternal life. It changes our desires so that all we want is to be as our Father, the giver of perfect love. And in perfect love is righteousness made perfect in us. It is his love that refines us as he desires.

      As we draw close to him in spirit and truth and thus having been in his “fire” thus love for a bit … we find that he desires us to give and receive love and that is our “obedience”; to do all things in love. It feels more like a desire than an construct of “obedience” that often suggests doing something unpleasant or undesirable yet necessary. I find none of this type of obedience with him .. but only that which comes willingly, cheerfully and desirously. His ways are desirable and continue to grow more desirable the more we know of them .. thus obedience becomes expressed as desire. How good he is to us.

      To love is easy to say, but much harder to do. I find myself unable to love in accordance to the visions of his love he has shown me … my fallen nature gets in the way and I find myself joining Paul in Romans 7. It becomes clear that without him when can do nothing … for we only truly give and live when we love. And in seeing our inherent inability to do that which we desire, which is to love in a way that every soul is blessed every time by our presence, we realize our need for salvation .. for his will to consume our will. For us to be released from our “free-will” movements, and be fixed into only acting in his will. To only be the garments experiencing the expressions of his will.

      Until then, we press forward. Once we perceive such a tremendous love there is no other desire. So no matter the struggles or shortcomings of our own … we know that all is working for good and find friendship and consolation in patience, acceptance, and faith.

      Thanks for all your encouragements along this journey.

      • Hello Rachael,

        I couldn’t agree with you more about “obedience”. In our “spiritual” youth we think in terms of do’s and don’ts; we must do this or that to be accepted by our Father. When we have been through the heating process of being matured it is just as you say, it’s not a matter of doing but simply a matter of being, a quiet faith in knowing that God’s love will bring us to His likeness, not because of anything we have done but by accepting His promises to us in that if we would believe it is counted to us as faith. Believing or belief is much more than it being “about something” but the word in spirit takes on an action, an action of being found in His will. “Obedience” in maturity is in keeping with a peace, a contentment in knowing we are being made in His image. Again, it is not an outward obedience in doing things but an inward “being” of faith, where it becomes a rest of having been through the outward works and realizing faith comes by believing as Abraham believed God and it was counted to Him as righteousness. Abraham being 400 years before the law had no law to obey in an outward fashion. The promises given to Abraham are ours also…..through faith, in us. There was no law in Abraham’s time and we are free also from the law as we follow God’s calling us in the spirit. We can confirm our walk by reading and studying the law however He gives us of Himself from Himself, so His spirit does not come by observing outward rituals of laws but from an inward obedience to Who He is.

        It is a quiet obedience, one that has surpassed the “works” of the law, the doing and obeying of external things, such as having special days, special buildings, times, and places to “observe.” Obeying these kinds of “natural” things are under the law. When we understand what these types are in anti types we see for example, the day (light) of The Lord as coming to an awareness of Himself in us, in the true building. This building is not made with natural hands. We see the sabbath as not one day in a week but a rest we come to in “that day” where we see Him as He is and there will be no more darkness, no more dividing night for we will live one day in perpetual light with no more “separation of days” but a continual blessing of always being in the ”day” or light. This spiritual day and light has nothing to do with the natural day, light and night as they are only shadows of the true things while observing them under and in the law, but in spirit they are truth, they are to be seen, not with natural light but with the spiritual mind given us by God Himself, through the anointing of our example, Christ.

        I too wish, as Paul, and as you reference, we could be rid of this nature that we were born with, which is the vanity God that He will take from us just as He gave it to us, but in His time according to His plan for each of us. As Paul, and as I know you as well as I, pray to be free from all that is not God’s likeness but just as in Paul’s case, God leaves some of our human traits in us to keep us humble until He has finally consumed by His fire all out of us that is not His ways and will.

        Our letters are a hope of what we desire, often the words do not and cannot measure our true self, yes I agree as in Roman’s 7. It is nice to speak about our desire, and want to be what we see, but we see it aways off as Paul, but as Paul so aptly put it, when God seems to pull back and seemingly cease to be recognized for periods of time in our daily life, we wait, we remain firm in knowing the rain and the droughts have their purpose and these dry times will pass for they have great purpose.

        I believe God is kind to us in letting us see our fallen nature if we will just acknowledge it. This is so that we may learn the lessons to be learned from our fallen state, and when we do learn them, He says He will take them (our fallen sinful nature) from us. Denying what we are ( naturally) and self righteously will only prolong our spiritual growth for the natural must be taken away so that all that remains after the refining fire is spirit, His likeness and character.

        I do not think that we should belittle ourselves nor another for our or their faults for they are given for a purpose and once this purpose has been fulfilled they will be taken away. This is why I say we should respect all others regardless of their views and beliefs and not look to tear them down but to build them up. Sometimes buildings built upon shifting sands must be removed, the foundation built properly and then the building put back in proper order. So there is a time for some buildings (us) to be adjusted as we attempt to build ourselves while not waiting on the spirit. We were born “down” so to speak so it is all “up” from there. It is the plan for the first part of our earthly journey to be one of an imprisoned mind to the fleshly wills, in and of the natural mind, but not to be left in it but to be released from it little by little.

        I personally believe it to be true that God’s love is in every detail of our suffering and trials. I believe they are so finely tuned for our new self that awaits us that were it not for the unkindness’ of this life we would never learn the wonderfulness of God in a way that we could appreciate Him and be grateful for all He has done and is doing for us all.

        When I understood the types without knowing what they meant in anti type, God was a different God to me, one I didn’t completely trust because I did not understand that the love of God is in all things. Now, in understanding in anti type what I once failed to recognize, I now see a wonderful and loving God which now I have no fear of, I have a complete trust as I have never before had, and I see His love in all things and for all people, and not just some.

        As a result of these fiery trials and test, It is now a different world I live in and as I continue down this path and see where I came from, it makes the road must clearer that lay ahead. Now I understand we live because of His promises He made to us before we were born, and not having done anything good or bad as in the case of Jacob, we will come to His likeness because of His promise and through the strength He gives to us, measure by measure until we are full of Himself. This is the plan.

        I see what you are saying Rachel, and that is we are to become to a state of mind where natural works has ceased and the quietness of the spirit is complete. I see that we do go through cycles just as in the seasons of the year, and as there are many natural years, there are many spiritual cycles of repetition we must pass through to be matured. The finest gold ( God’s spirit in us) must be refined multiple times to make us to His liking. I understand for the purest of gold they would refine it 7 times in Old Testament times depicting the number 7 of completeness or perfection.

        When we are passing through one of these wintery cycles we must remember spring, and then summer comes…when we are blooming and growing again. We are like different trees, and different trees stand the seasons different one from the other. Some are “evergreen” giving off the color of life even in winter, some are as the “Cedars of Lebanon”.

        In knowing we are God’s workmanship and not our own…we trust….Him to finish His promise to us and that is to partake of His very love, likeness and character. This is the true reward….To be as He is, in His likeness. There is no greater reward.

        Let us all share what we have and if we don’t perchance see what another sees or understands, leave it and them be, and although you may not agree in word, let us agree in spirit. Not all can see the same message nor does God require all to see what He allows another to see. This is why there are different orders and callings in the spirit just as there are different orders in the natural. We are educated according to our order and calling. There is not one size that fits all as some may believe. Sometimes when I write some see and are confirmed in themselves of all I say and then they’re are others that are totally blind to the true spiritual meanings of these things and they berate these things not understanding their meaning. It is that some understand with the natural mind and some with the spiritual mind, and some in between. We grow through all the stages and we would would do well to allow others to grow without condemnation.

        We must decrease…He must increase….in us.

        I too appreciate the exchanging of our conversations without judgement and criticism of our varying views. When we see God in others we tend to overlook their faults and not hold these things against them just as God does not hold faults against us but is merciful to our faults. We must follow the example and show patience as we expect it for ourselves.

        I have been through many shifting phases as you are now experiences, so remain still, let Him do His work, and you will come forth a little more refined until your “seventh time” also comes. And it will. Then all the wood, hay and stubble (our carnal nature) will have all been burned out of us by that great and consuming fire which is none other than God Himself.

        Even fire is a good thing if looked at as the purifying agent it is. That is another subject for another time.

        All is well.

  10. To start, it is instructive to understand that the words “faith”, “trust” and “believe” in English translations all come from the same Greek root (pisteuo).

    To ones starting out in their quest for wanting to know God, through Christ, it can be a confusing thing just having turned from the weak and beggarly elements of the world. At this time belief to some at this juncture “believe” is a word “about something”, it is about a thing on the exterior, a God off out somewhere in the ethereal heavens. To a babe in Christ and to even those spirits who believe “about” Him, this belief is an intellectual belief, a knowledgeable belief without substance, not having a quest for love but for knowledge without love. The word believe is one of perspective like all words. Belief, faith, and trust continually take on new meaning as we follow after that which is Christ or our anointing of His likeness. This likeness is love and without this “advancement” of faith we remain intellectual Christians and do not move beyond the letter. We are always bent on proving to another our self worth by the choice of words we use and not by true “pisteuo” or the desiring of faith, trust, and belief with love as our pursued foundation. As long as the “law” is our foundation (which brings death and not life) and not the nature (name) of Christ we struggle and beat the air where nothing exist of true substance. Paul aptly describes this condition of those who beateth the air with intellectual words without love as their foundation.

    We must move past the outward, intellectual “definitions” we are so “proud” of and learn humility through the loving and true action of these pisteuo words through the desire to love instead of the desire to know in the carnal or prideful sense.

    Faith, trust and belief are not intellectual words to the spirit, only to the unregenerate, the infant, the babe in Christ. This is why we must be tolerant of those who justify “their” righteousness by intellect and not by love. The words we use and believe in change in their meaning as we change in our substantive love for God and one another. Belief, instead of it being about something, it becomes something for when words describe our substantive love it then is not outward through intellect and boasting in the word but becomes the loving substance of God and thus belief cannot be separated from who He is.

    Our belief must become who we are inside of ourselves, in the true temple where God dwells in buildings not made with hands. As long as we remain intellectual Christians we worship in buildings outside of ourselves where God does not dwell.

    Therefore let us pursue love and the knowledge will follow to verify our faith. Knowledge is good but it at best can only tell “about” the true, however if we become the true, there is no definition needed, and as the scripture so aptly reveals knowledge will cease once the true substance arrives which is the substantive love of God. Until this Love arrives we can use only words of the law to “talk about” love.
    Let those of us who are led by the spirit mind seek the spirit and cease as children in bantering words back and forth as though this is somehow a spiritual thing.

    We know or are known by our fruit. Let our fruit be of the “Tree of Life” which is spiritual belief and not of the “tree of the knowledge of good and evil” which is intellectual belief or belief which comes from the dead letter of the word of law. For we should all know the “word law” is the administration of death and the spiritual word does not originate from the law of death but from the true word of God which is Christ and His anointing does not come through intellect or the law. As we learn to love and give forth that love we are again measured another portion of this love until we are filled through obedience to this inpouring. Some will love to the 30 and 60 fold order and some will manifest their complete and surrendered will achieving the 100 fold order.

    Let us love in the love of God and leave childish intellectual surmising and debate to those who practice the false religion in outward temples.

    Our words and the use of them reveal our measured substance or that spiritual maturity which our Father gives and allows. Therefore we pursue relationships with God and others through the substance of His love we are given by being obedient to His will. Measure by measure.

    A forgiving nature is a loving nature and the consummate love is toward all, just like our Father.

    • Our words and the use of them reveal our measured substance or that spiritual maturity which our Father gives and allows.
      So if one is bantering then that would be self analysis,
      and probably a false judgment.
      All words are intellectual, even when they describe spiritual
      realities.
      Whatever maturity you obtain will fall within the same parameters
      of understanding that would be applicable, to a babe.
      When one is loving, it doesn’t mean that he is, any less,
      intellectual, on the contrary the term intellectual is simply
      a term of measurement.
      The more intellectual you are, the greater your comprehension
      of truth.
      However these terms are in no way, in opposition to, love,
      but increase your capacity to understand it’s depth.
      Love is not just a kiss on the cheek.
      Judas kissed Jesus on the cheek.
      Great wisdom and intellect are to be desired.
      We see God rewarding Solomon when he made this, his
      prayer.
      God is the God of the intelligent, and the base.
      He’s able to love the smart, and those of weak intellect.
      It’s important to use the gifts that God has given us,
      and this is what will produce 30, 60, and 100 fold.
      When you are mature, you will be able to communicate,
      with the wise.
      Without law, there is no judgment or wisdom.
      The terms wisdom and judgment are inherent in
      the term law, because they are the foundations,
      of order.
      Acknowledging law, doesn’t imply legalism.
      The letter, of the law, is a different subject.

      In order to critique the conduct of others, whether
      spiritual or any other way, necessarily implies
      the use of law, and laws.
      Otherwise there is no judgment, and nothing to
      base judgments on.
      The judgment for children, would obviously be a
      lesser judgment, than the judgment for one
      considered mature.
      So, the term law, would necessarily, by definition,
      be more applicable and of a superior nature
      to one who is mature, than to a babe.

      It is those who are immature, that will be judged
      outside of law.
      The term, letter of the law, on the other hand
      means, that one is judged according to his
      perfection, and that includes the term maturity.
      You will never obtain to a maturity of this kind,
      as to be perfect,
      because it is relative to the analysis of the
      personhood of Christ.
      Only He, can knight you with this approximation.
      So, between mortals, conversations based on
      wisdom, and knowledge, are the basis of
      any approximation of Love which we may
      inherit, and of which we may share.
      God isn’t handing out condemnation’s based on
      the familiarity of communication.
      His Love is many faceted.

  11. The Pharisees were very intellectual people, void of the love of Christ. Did they not take great pride in their understanding of the law? Did not Christ strongly admonish them for taking great pride in their “own” intellect of the law? These were very carnally minded (religious mind you ) men, full of the wisdom of this world although professing to be righteous yet Christ pointed out to them that even though they were steeped in tradition, they were void of the love of God. They had wisdom also, but their wisdom evidently did not lead them to Christ. They chose their own wisdom and intellect over the wisdom of Christ.

    It is simply a matter of ones priority in following Christ. Words are great if they come from a matured anointing within. However the rumblings of a fool are soon made public as Christ so clearly pointed out. But the ramblings of a fool can be put forth as intellect and wisdom although he is usually the only one to believe himself.

    My words are given in the same context and addressing the same subject as Christ’s message to the Pharisees; even though one is and can be intellectual and sound mature, one is often found defending the law as a Pharisee.

    The intellect of the Pharisees views of the law that Christ was addressing was in no way a measurement of their love for their fellow man. Christ was telling them their knowledge and or intellect would not get them to the kingdom they were addressing by their “intellect”. I do not think this needs a lot of explaining in the context I am using.

    My point is that we should put our search for the love of God first, then when His substantive love grows within, we speak from a likeness, instead of reciting dead letters and thinking we do God service. Paul spoke much on the difference in gaining in the substance of God verses pursuing righteousness by turning to the weak and beggarly elements of the law. Galatians is a good book to read if one has trouble understanding these basic fundamentals of distinguishing between intellectual law and the pursuit of righteousness.

    I suppose another way of putting it is that love should lead the intellect and not the other way around. There is a difference in intellect, the five wise and the five foolish both were intellectual but one was led by the pursuit of the likeness of God and and the other tried to climb up by “their” intellect of the law, which God rejected them for.

    My words above attempt to describe these things, encouraging people to prioritize their life and pointing out there is a false way and the carnal minded “Christians” as the Pharisees put aside the love of Christ while thinking they will be heard for their much speaking.

    The law was given because of the trespasses by Israel, it was not given because of their righteousness. The law was given until the Messiah was to come to keep some order with rebellious Israel. Righteousness does not come by the law at all for all the law did was to reveal their sin. Righteousness comes by Christ and our direct relationship with Him personally.

    Again,
    There are two virgins, one wise and one foolish. One sought to achieve righteousness by their understanding or their “intellect” of the law. The other first sought the love of Christ and their resulting words were of their spirit within and not simply read off of some page. There are only two people in the world, Adam and Christ, meaning one will attempt to use the law to climb up which is foolishness and the other will pursue the very likeness and love of God. I do not expect all who read these lines to understand what I say but some will, I speak to these. I do not disparage those who do not understand at this time in their journey, it is God who reveals Himself to each of us as He chooses.

    I write to those who desire to share in a common bond of the likeness of Christ knowing it is Christ who intercedes for each of us and ask our Father for more of His likeness on our behalf. This is accomplished by walking daily in obedience to His will, and asking for a greater measurement than that we had yesterday. Let this pursuit of His likeness be our “priority” for it takes little intellect to love. Intellect does not contain all that we need, however love is complete in every way for God is love.

    Have a good day

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