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Stirring The Deep

What is the Rapture? Part 1 of 3

35 Comments

What is the Rapture? Part 1 of 3

Luke 17:20-21 Now when He was asked by the Pharisees when the kingdom of God would come, He answered them and said, “The kingdom of God does not come with observation; “nor will they say, ‘See here!’ or ‘See there!’ For indeed, the kingdom of God is within you.”

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Author: Rachel

My passion is cultivating a deep relationship with God and helping others to do the same. I LOVE sharing with others insights that God has taught me and hearing what God has taught them... thus my blog, Stirring the Deep. My focus is on a relationship, not a religion. Life is in the relationship. I believe in a balance and unity of body, mind and spirit. I feel it's important to nurture all three for they all affect each other. I try to live in the present, where the Holy Spirit is. And I try to do all with the motive of love. I've come to believe life is a journey and not a destination. It isn't about perfection, is it about growth.

35 thoughts on “What is the Rapture? Part 1 of 3

  1. What do think he means by we shall not precede them who sleep?

    • Hi, I have some ideas but I’m waiting on God to put it all together. What do you think it means?

      • Well I believe in a literal Rapture, so I believe it has it’s basis in the thought of those who have passed will receive a spiritual body, at the Rapture. This teaching doesn’t necessarily contradict what you are sharing in your video, because they could both be true, in a manner of progression. What I find mysterious though about the traditional church teaching is that in this chapter Paul first uses the definition of sleep as meaning death, and then changes to saying sleep meaning, those who are not spiritually awake or you might say, alert, or thriving spiritually, not awake in their spirits fully to God, then back to sleep, meaning death, again. So, there is still an element of mystery, and shadows of meaning. The verses are not completely discernable at face value. But I do take them literally. And I have no doubt in God’s ability to bring about a miracle of translation.

      • i listen to Rachels video,..and HER OWN thoughts on spirit and ‘in the air’…..and i compare it to Scripture,..and i find one does contradict the other,..one is right and one is wrong!

        15 For this we say to you by the word of the Lord, that we who are alive and remain until the Coming of the Lord, will not precede those who have fallen asleep. 16 For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel and with the Trumpet of God, and the dead in Christ will rise first. 17 Then we who are alive and remain will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air, and so we shall always be with the Lord.

      • Hi Brian, consider this verse … and how air is used ..

        Ephesians 2:2 in which you once walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit who now works in the sons of disobedience,

        It’s the same word .. obviously it’s talking about air in a spirit sense.

      • Hi, most assume we just instantly change … but the kingdom of God comes as a mustard seed .. it grows until it fills the earth. Why it talks about seeds, etc .. it’s growth as all things are with God. The kingdom of God is within us .. so it is us that change and grow and transform this earth .. we are the reason for the transition, thus we are needed here. Christ’s spirit unites with ours … and that uniting is taking place now. That power, light, peace, love is what renews this earth. Why creation is waiting for the sons of God to be revealed. We are revealed as as start to change. But it starts small, thus a thief to some, but those of the Day not a thief because they see the change in them. Those looking outside for the kingdom are looking in the wrong place. We have to look inside. The light is starting to shine … the morning star, Christ’ spirit, to rise in us. Not being here isn’t spoken of for the end .. the wicked are purged from the earth, not the righteous. We are a very important part of the kingdom of God filling this earth.

      • (Those looking outside for the kingdom are looking in the wrong place.)
        I think if your looking for the wicked to be purged from the earth, you would see that happen only externally.
        That would be external, where you would observe that. ‘The wicked’ would visibly disappear, so you wouldn’t have to deal with them- (rather than the Church disappear). So I think you just have your hope, set in reverse. You just have it flip flopped.
        Two scriptures seem to give a different picture.
        Revelation 9:6 And in those days shall men seek death, and shall not find it; and shall desire to die, and death shall flee from them.
        Revelation 17:17 “For God has put it into their hearts to fulfill His purpose, to be of one mind, and to give their kingdom to the beast, until the words of God are fulfilled.”

      • Rachel,..no id disagree

        theres two, (and more), very different types of air,..the ‘air’ we breathe,..and the ‘air’ above our heads,but lets deal specifically with the one above our heads,….and id ask you to consider,..the words that accompany ‘air’ in Ephesians 2 and 1 Thess ,…and the ‘air’ the eagle flies in in Proverbs 30,…to me its the same word and place,..the same word .. and to me obviously it’s NOT talking about air in a spirit sense.

        Eph 2…is satan is being described as the ‘power OF the air’ (note OF)

        1 Thess 4…is describing the dead,and those alive at the 7 trumpet… ‘and the dead in Christ shall rise first’ and those who are alive “with them IN the clouds”,AND “to meet the Lord IN the air”…(special note IN)

        as for Proverbs 30, air..i guess ill let Scripture prove itself,..save to say everyone should consider Proverbs 30,..esp,.v 4

        Ephesians 2:2
        Wherein in time past ye walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power OF the air, the spirit that now worketh in the children of disobedience:

        1 Thessalonians 4:17
        Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them IN the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

        Proverbs 30:19
        The way of an eagle in the air; the way of a serpent upon a rock; the way of a ship in the midst of the sea; and the way of a man with a maid.

        theres another 3 words,..could very easily mean the same,..but one comes from the god of this world,..and 2 from The God of Our Saviour and Redeemer!

        blinded minds…..stupor…….delusion

        Romans 11:7-9

        8 According as it is written, God hath given them the spirit of slumber/stupor, eyes that they should not see, and ears that they should not hear;unto this day.

        9 And David saith, Let their table be made a snare, and a trap, and a stumbling block, and a recompense unto them:

        2Thess 2

        11 And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie

        2 Corinthians 4:4
        In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them.

    • Anonymous
      “Two scriptures seem to give a different picture…Amos 8 and
      Revelation 9:6 ..And in those days shall men seek death, and shall not find it; and shall desire to die, and death shall flee from them.”

      theres a piece to Scripture we all need to consider,..its in the times immediately ahead at the start of Tribulation!….seek death and cannot find it ??…phewwww……and no Word to be found anywhere?

      is what gives and takes life….. and the Word,..One and the same ?

      • Not sure of your point, or meaning?

      • well what is it that gives and takes life,…if men seek and want to die?…but cant? Rev 9

        you would almost think you wont be able to die,..even if you want too,..its like a suicide victim worse nitemare

        and the prophetic Amos 8 v 11 – 12

        11 Behold, the days come, saith the Lord God, that I will send a famine in the land, not a famine of bread, nor a thirst for water,
        but of hearing the Words of the Lord:

        12 And they shall wander from sea to sea, and from the north even to the east, they shall run to and fro to seek the word of the Lord, and shall not find it.

        a bit like an atheists dream come true,..or a foolish virgin that cant get ‘oil’ any where?

        im pondering is it one and the same thing,…what gives life?…

        certainly not bread alone,..thats Written for sure,..and said by Our Teacher.

      • Interesting thought about Amos 8;12. Not sure it applies, but very interesting thought. Actually in Am 8:12, they are seeking life. In Rev. 9:6, they are seeking death.

  2. Rachel i dont know what bible youve been reading lately?
    i’ll agree with you that this ‘rapture’ put out by many christians cannot be backed up with Scripture.

    but i say to you,..your theory on ‘rapture’ and ‘spirit’ and ‘caught up in the air’ cannot be backed up by Scripture either.

    in my Holy Bible,..the day of the Lord,..will not come about like a thief if you watch diligently and discern the times.

    there will be a great lead up to it actually,..as described in many many Books of both Testaments,..Rev,1 st n 2 nd Thess,Matt,Jeremiah, Isaiah,Joel,Luke….the list goes on.

    in my Holy Bible,..The Lord Almighty, The Son, of God Almighty,..will make a very visible return approx 7 years when the prophesied week of Daniel starts,..and at that return the dead with rise and then those left alive will be caught up in the air.

    with a little discernment the ‘day of the Lord’ is within the last 42 months,..when everyone and anyone thats alive will be here on earth,..not ‘raptured’ to Heaven,..nor in the ‘wilderness’,..and not the 1st 42 months,..in my Holy Bible,..in that first 42 months,.The Holy Spirit will not be found anywhere!!!!!!!!

    in any Scripture ive read, the first blessed group of people that get killed, and come to life again and get visibly took to Heaven are the 144,000, Rev 11 ….

    what very foolish christians fail to notice,..in Scripture,is that there is not a christian within this group,..in my Holy Bible the 144,000, are Israelites….not jews or christians, Israelites!

    1 Thessalonians 4 v 16-18

    16 For the Lord Himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:

    17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

    18 Wherefore comfort one another with these words.

    and
    Revelation 1:7
    “Look, he is coming with the clouds,” and “every eye will see him, even those who pierced him”; and all peoples on earth “will mourn because of him.” So shall it be!

    2Thess 2 v 3

    3 Don’t let anyone deceive you in any way, for that day will not come until the rebellion occurs and the man of lawlessness is revealed, the man doomed to destruction.

    • Thressher I think this that you mentioned undoes your theory.
      The we here would be Christians, as Paul who said it is one.
      1 Thessalonians 4 v 16-18

      17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

      • No, not at all,….”my theory” as you call it,..is not a theory,..its what is Written…REV 7

        if you read what i actually wrote,..i said, the ‘first’ blessed group,..thats ‘FIRST’…Rev 11,..in and around the 6th Trumpet,..the group Paul is referring to is at The 7th Trumpet,..2 totally different groups,..the 144,000 are Israelite s in my Holy Bible, no theory,..purely Scriptural.

        the group Paul is referring to,..hmmm,..might in theory be a very small group or a larger group made up of Israelites and/or gentiles turned ‘spiritual Israelites’,…all types of people will come to the God of Israel,out of The Tribulation,..whether he was referring to the ones out of Trib or that elite group that are blessed to live to the 1335 days,..??,..i dont know,..i havent been shown anything Scriptural that defines who that is,..do you?

        but just to get back,..its not my theory,..its Witten

        Rev 7

        4 Then I heard the number of those who were sealed: 144,000 from all the tribes of Israel.

        5 From the tribe of Judah 12,000 were sealed,

        from the tribe of Reuben 12,000,

        from the tribe of Gad 12,000,

        6 from the tribe of Asher 12,000,

        from the tribe of Naphtali 12,000,

        from the tribe of Manasseh 12,000,

        7 from the tribe of Simeon 12,000,

        from the tribe of Levi 12,000,

        from the tribe of Issachar 12,000,

        8 from the tribe of Zebulun 12,000,

        from the tribe of Joseph 12,000,

        from the tribe of Benjamin 12,000.

      • The group Paul is referring to are Christians, who are the body of Christ in the earth, because the warning is a blessed hope written to them, to escape the tribulation. Paul said, I turned my back on my heritage as an Israelite, so that I might receive my inheritance in Christ alone. Notice he said, so shall ‘we’ ever be with the Lord, so he is refferring to the Body of Christ which is the Church, showing why he said ‘comfort one another with these words’. 1 Thess 4:18
        No groups will come to God out of the Tribulation if the return of the Lord happens as you have predicted because—–
        2 Pet. 3:10 But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.
        —–this shows that the heavens and earth will pass away on that day.
        So, the Rapture Paul is ‘referring to’ would have to happen before that time and be a ‘seprarate event’ that happens previous to the day of the Lord.
        Your interpretations are all messed up!

      • “Your interpretations are all messed up!”

        i could say the same of you………

        Paul is referring to the ‘church’ that gets kept from the ‘HOUR’ of trial,..Rev 3,….only one group/church is that referred to in Rev 3,..it certainly dosent say the,.. nicknamed ‘church’,

        it is Written there are many ‘christs’ so we can assume,or see with our eyes there are many ‘christians’ /Xians,..most of wont fit that ‘church’ of Rev.

        most mainstream Xians/’christians’ belong to,or are a ‘protestant’ branch of the very unholy Roman Xian church who have lead people astray and have ‘tickle my ears’ /stupor induced/satan festival keeping people worshipping their hideous ‘god’ christ helius/ie’sus, son of the queen of heaven,..who is actually the one spoke of in Rev 9 v 11,..so i doubt very much it will be any of them in they current false worship pagan ways!

        and,..just to be clear,..in my Bible,’the dead rising’,’those left’ till the end that get caught up in the air to meet The King of kings,.is just AFTER Tribulation,

        Matthew 24:29 and Mark 13:24

        whats it in yours?

      • Well, I can see you’ve fallen off your bicycle again, next time, please wear your helmet. Wearing the helmet of Salvation. I think it would be The Church that is saved, wearing the helmet of Salvation, that is Raptured. Not hard to figure out. You could be correct about Chapter 3. However some people believe that the 7 Churches represent ages. If the Church is caught out at Chapter 3, before Tribulation, then you have answered our question, and yes in your previous notes, you said it wasn’t the Church that is Raptured. Back to your notes, the 144,000 is no where mentioned in Rev. Chapt. 11. Chapter 11 is about the two witnesses, and only two witness are caught up. (two men). There is no rapture of the 144,000 in Chp 11. The 144,000 are mentioned in Chp. 7. There is no mention of the 144,000 being raptured in Chpt 7. There is no mention of the 144,000 being Raptured, period, at all, zero, in the book of Revelation. Never says that. It says they are sealed in their forheads, to keep them from being smitten by the plagues. The trumpets that you keep referring to have nothing to do with a Rapture. Where they are mentioned in Chpts.. Rev, 8,9,10 & 11, it says they pour out plagues. The anti-christ isn’t mentioned till Chp 13. What Bible are you reading?

    • Just curious as to why you think someone who trusts only God to teach them would ever be led into “false” teachings? This is completely illogical.

      • Why would Peter deny Christ 3 times after having been taught for 3 years, personally by Jesus?
        Why would John the Baptist send his disciples to ask Jesus, if He was truly the Messiah after having personally declared him to be?
        Why did Thomas say, I will not believe that Christ rose from the dead unless I put my fingers in his side?
        1 John 4:1 Beloved, believe not every spirit, but try the spirits whether they are of God: because many false prophets are gone out into the world.

      • Why would Peter deny Christ three times? Because he didn’t have the Spirit of Christ within him – as Christ had not yet died to give it. This is why even Christ could not teach spiritual things to men. This is why God himself couldn’t teach spiritual truths to Adam and Eve. This is why Christ had to die – that we might have HIS spirit and understand all things. This is also why man-based teaching (like “floating up in the literal air” in a “rapture) is false teaching. Men are unable to teach a spirit anything. Only the Spirit of God can teach your spirit.

      • Sorry! Above “Anonymous” quote is from me.

      • For me, none of what you have said is from the Spirit of God and is not Bible based, and is not from Jesus Christ. If the voice you are hearing, does not line up with the teachings of Jesus, and the Epistles, your hearing a voice, that’s not from God. All of the subjects you covered, are already taught in the Bible and your not in line with any of them. What subjects are already taught in the Bible are not debatable.
        Your not in line with the teachings of Jesus Christ. This is the whole reason for sticking with the Word.

      • If you think God, who IS Truth would deceive someone who seeks him – you are incorrect and greatly misunderstand the power of the Word of God.

      • I didn’t say God would deceive you. It is the enemy who can deceive,
        you. The written Word doesn’t need an interpretation, because it is already written out. All you need to do is read it. I said you are hearing a voice that is Not God’s voice. I didn’t say God would deceive you. When you said– even Christ couldn’t teach spritiual things to men. That’s a lie. It’s not in the Bible, and is not Truth. So that would be from a spirit of the enemy, A lying spirit. If you like truth, then you’ll hear what I’m saying.

  3. Hang in there Rachel, For if you were readily received by every one, you would be as the Lord said, “a false prophet” —Yes, there are no prophets from God today else it would make Jesus false. Yet, “the testemony of Jesus is the spirit of prophesy” —the 42months was from 669 until 1929 —1929 was when the lawless one was revealed —1929 was when the third seal of the Lamb’s book of life was opened. The last day is very near because we are now awaiting the opening of the sixth seal. It cannot be dec.2012 because of the time alicaited between the last two great prophesies, yet all other indicators says it is very close. —Daniel knew from the book of Jeremiah that the 70d weeks prophesy would all be in one timeline. The so-call seven weeks prophesy is no more than strong delusion that God has put on preachers & their followers. Rapture &left behind is more garbage-delusion from those that do not believe every word out of the mouth of God! —As for “we which are alive and remain” “it is appointed unto man once to die” Yes, those whom have chosen Jesus, have already passed the judgment, however, we must all follow Jesus in death that we may shedd the flesh body. The two wittnesses will remain dead for three an one half days. —For five years this man continually ask God to know the two wittnesses, when He finally showed the scripture to me, I ask why I had not known before because it was so very simple. The Spirit’s answer was that there was so very much other things I would need to know before I could fully understand. E.W.

    • hmmm, E.W.

      The lawless one in any Bible ive read is the ‘beast from the pit’,…you know,..the ‘locusts’ king angel .Rev 9 v11

      and he and his are not released from the ‘bottomless pit’,..(thats the PRISON inside this earth),..until the 5th Trumpet

      now,..anyone with eyes to see,..will discern,..Trumpet 5 and the 1st Seal,..are the arrival of the false christ…

      and Trumpets 1-4,..hmmm,..you need to ponder them,…they havent blown yet,..when they do,..you’ll know about it,…and if your in America,..you’ll definitely know about it,..or not as the blowing will be a consuming wind!

  4. Luke 21:34 “But be on your guard so that your hearts are not weighed down with dissipation and drunkenness and the worries of this life, and that day close down upon you suddenly like a trap. 21:35 For it will overtake all who live on the face of the whole earth. 21:36 But stay alert at all times, praying that you may have strength to escape all these things that must happen, and to stand before the Son of Man.”

    no rapture then what is luke 21:36 It is describing a believer escaping the tribulation, what over takes the whole earth 21:35 the 7 year tribulation.

  5. E.W. here. As I rechecked my study notes, I did find I was wrong on the dates of the first 42months/1260yrs.. The beast kingdom leader was set up in 529 and ended in 1789 when General Berthier took him to Valance, south france, locking him in prison where he died the same year. The Lord said He gave time for him(whole world) to repent, but after 140 years the largest majority of the world has only a form of godliness while denying the power there of. 1929, even newspapers in the beast that rose from the ground, headlined, “THE WOUND HAS BEEN HEALED”. “for by thy sorceries were all nations deceived” —As for the sounding trumpets, everyone that would be with the Lord must get away from denominational pearchers and do their own study, while depending only on the Holy counselor. What angels do & hear may not always be seen or heard by man; the sixth & seventh trumpet is all that this man understands as to man hearing. But that will be too late to have a change of attitude. —Luke21:36 neither can they die any more: look to the Revelations & study the second dead & this will become clear. “Blessed are the dead which die in the Lord from henceforth: Yea, saith the Spirit, that they may rest from their labours; and their works do follow them.

    • EW…i think you need to re check The Holy Bible,..the ‘leader’/the antichrist was locked in prison with the other angels that rebelled in Noahs time,and according to my Bible were still there when the Messiah was here and hung on the ‘tree’,…and according to ‘The Notes’ Written as Scripture,he and they are still there,..and will get let out when the Trumpets start a Blow’in

  6. Hey thresherman, it is good that Rachel allows us to discuss the Lord on her dollar. —I have checked the scripture many times! However, it was when I started to first going into deep, sincere, humble prayer that the Holy Spirit began to open my heart’s eye that I my know God’s truth, which has set me free from most preacher delusion. —Before the great flood the offspring of angels & daughters of men were called “mighty men”. After the flood Nimrod was called “the first of the mighty men”. The thirty body guards of David were called mighty men. Another point of study; assasination of kings was only heard of in the Jew nation until a certain time. All other nations before this certain time had kings that were thought to be gods; man could not prevail against them. —Jesus told us (in the scripture) exactly when the war in heaven took place And how long it lasted. —I will not go into scripture detail of these things because hearing it from a man is of no value to another person: one must know it through the Holy counselor before it is sure truth. E.W.

  7. Hey thresherman, another point of study: there are 12 prophesy points whereby to identify the son of perdition. I have found more than 12 but, other of the elect have confurmed to me that they have also found the 12. I have found (in the scripture) that for every teaching of the Almighty, satan has produced a counterfit. I cannot say it to be anymore than a feeling but, God said, “He will choose their delusions”; the son of perdition must also die twice. He has died once and even though he may not know he is asigned to a second death, his father (satan) does know it and the point of the beast from the ground bringing the son of perdition back to life, makes satan know that he as but a short time left and is now pooring out all the counterfit-deception he can muster. The proof is in the fact that every city has more retail Jesus buisnesses than any other buisness. E.W.

  8. Hi Rachel, I also do not have a possitive truth on “we shall not precede them who sleep”. A thought for study, I think could be in —those who believe Jesus will never die —those asleep under the throne of God —caught up to those in the air ect. I would be interested in all studies. E.W.

  9. 17:20 Now at one point the Pharisees asked Jesus when the kingdom of God was coming, so he answered, “The kingdom of God is not coming with signs to be observed, 17:21 nor will they say, ‘Look, here it is!’ or ‘There!’ For indeed, the kingdom of God is in your midst.”
    This is a far better translation than “in you.” Jesus would never tell the hostile Pharisees that the kingdom was inside them. The reference is to Jesus present in their midst. He brings the kingdom. Another possible translation would be “in your grasp.”
    what does this verse have to do with the rapture this verse concerns the first coming of Christ. Christ is saying the Kingdom is here all Israel had to do is accept Christ as the Messiah. Then the kingdom would have been set up after His death and resurrection. But because of Israel rejection of Christ as Israels Messiah the Kingdom has been postponed till the 1000 year millennium.

    • I don’t think Jesus was speaking these words to the Pharisees, because He said to them, you are of your Father the Devil. But to those who were being led by the Father, he said, Matthew 10:20 “for it is not you who speak, but the Spirit of your Father who speaks in you.”

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